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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Am I being unreasonable to confront this woman?

581 replies

justanuthermanicmumsday · 19/09/2013 01:33

for those of you who don't know I wear a face veil usually a patterned scarf to avoid sticking out so much lol. point is I expect the odd comments maybe groans as I work past in my honour of course.

But two times now this senior lady I'd say in her 60s or more unprovoked loudly made comments at me. The first time she said" why are you wearing that" I was walking past with my twin buggy to supermarket, I thght she was incredibly rude. Had she said excuse me and proceeded to ask me a question in a normal tone I wouldn't have been miffed. Still I kept my cool said religious reasons as I walked away. I didn't want a conversation I don't see why I should explain when she was so rude.

yet today I see her again shouting across the road at me this time." No need to wear that take it off". Today I would say she looked aggressive or perhaps it was my eyes deceiving me. My toddler was with me she looked distressed said" mummy whys that lady shouting". I said "she's prob ill like your gran never mind her."

Should I confront her if this happens again? I'm not an aggressive person quite a walkover and not much confidence but I think it can't be ignored its like harassment.

I dread to think ill pass her again if I pop out she's always on the same route as me, yet why should I dread her.

Granted she doesn't like my dress neither does my brother, I'm not harming her in anyway. one sibling said I shouldn't confront her in case she goes to the police. But that's insane what reason would she have to go to the police i would simply tell her to get off my case. How would she like it if I told her to change her dress for something more acceptable to me. She's not the fashion police or the law.

Please remember this is not a conversation on whether you approve of my dress rather this woman's behaviour

OP posts:
inalandfarfaraway · 19/09/2013 14:20

"that's why so many internet threads go nasty - we can't see each other so behave in ways that we wouldn't face to face"

You've put your finger on it there, I was struggling to find a succinct way to put it.

PeppiNephrine · 19/09/2013 14:22

Only in this kind of situation is up to the victim of abuse to appease and educate the twat shouting.
This isn't a difficult one, by any means. For all of those hard of thinking, the one shouting at a woman innocently going about her day is 100% in the wrong. Legally, morally, and obviously.
HTH.

capticorn1 · 19/09/2013 14:22

This is harassment under the equality act 2010, and you would be within your rights to involve the police.

wannaBe · 19/09/2013 14:24

"if they want to make that choice then they must stand by causing offence to people." Rubbish. If you, as a non muslim are offended by a muslim woman's choice to wear a vale then being offended is a choice you make. It is not offensive to you personally - it just isn't.

All this "women faught for the right/freedom/yada yada yada" is just words to hide behind people's justification for bigotry and religious hatred.

That kind of smug self righteous feminism is far more offensive than anyone's choice of head/face covering.

And yes, any woman should be offended by that because those kinds of feminists are the types who criticise/judge any other woman who does not conform to their way of thinking. Not much difference between that way of thinking and extreme religion really is there? Hmm

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 19/09/2013 14:26

I don't think it should be up to the victim to appease and educate, but I'm not sure of any other solution to all these people that are, seemingly, scared of the veil and are acting aggressively? The OP shouldn't have to remove her veil to show she is a person, of course not, but what other ways can you educate people on this issue? (Not being sarcastic)

YouTheCat · 19/09/2013 14:30

You can think what you like about veils or whatever you want, so long as you keep that thought in your head.

The minute you infringe on someone else to shout abuse at them is the moment police should be involved. I don't think some people can be educated about these things.

PeppiNephrine · 19/09/2013 14:31

The rest of us could stop letting them away with that behaviour, for a start.

wannaBe · 19/09/2013 14:31

these people who are scared of the vale should just be told to get a fucking grip.

We need to stop having debates/conversation/allowing the publishing of articles which allow one particular sector of society to be singled out in a way which would not be allowed for any other sector of society.

No-one would tolerate having a discussion singling out purely catholics or jews for their practices so why should muslims be any different.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 19/09/2013 14:31

Well, that's a depressing thought.

moominleigh94 · 19/09/2013 14:31

People fought for the right to choose what we wear, and if the OP has chosen to wear the veil and wants to wear it, that is her choice, and she should be entitled to that without fear of being attacked - either online or in real life, physically or verbally.

There are people in the world who are forced to wear veils; that is something that should be stopped, but how can we stop people from being forced to wear something.... by forcing people to stop wearing something? How are we any better in that situation? Choice is an individual thing; not something you can apply to everyone.

AdventureTed · 19/09/2013 14:40

WannaBe - I think we should have an open society with freedom of speech.

Beeyump · 19/09/2013 14:43

Agreed AdventureTed

Why should I be told to 'get a fucking grip' for expressing my feelings about something?

PeppiNephrine · 19/09/2013 14:45

Depends on what feelings and who you are saying them to. Freedom of speech does not include hate speech, incitement to cause hatred, racist language and abuse.....and it certainly doesn't give you any rights over other peoples clothes.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 19/09/2013 14:46

Free speech doesn't mean you should vomit out every single offensive thought that runs through your head though. You can have freedom of speech whilst also recognising that some things do not need to be validated by a debate.

AdventureTed · 19/09/2013 14:48

WannaBe - would you be saying these things if you could see us and we could see you?

Beeyump · 19/09/2013 14:50

I'm not vomiting out offensive thoughts, thank you.
I am simply stating that I believe that we should be able to see one anothers faces in public.

AdventureTed · 19/09/2013 14:52

Hopalongon - what about winning hearts and minds through sensible dialogue?

ILetHimKeep20Quid · 19/09/2013 14:53

I can't think of one topic that's not worthy of discussion. It's what thinking people do. They ask why?

You can not tell people not to think.

It's not vomiting out offensive thoughts.

You can repress thinking.

AdventureTed · 19/09/2013 14:54

Hop - jaw jaw instead of war war... and all that.

Salbertina · 19/09/2013 14:57

Poor OP!

I think this debate has its place but not here necessarily where an individual, a person has posted for advice on the nasty behaviour she's being confronted with.

I agree that we should openly accept others' right to live/dress etc as they wish. But I also dislike seeing the veil being worn as it seems to me so oppressive, so anti-feminist and so dehumanising. But that is my view- i have no right to impose this on anyone else, especially a woman with kids just going about her daily business.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 19/09/2013 14:59

But we are starting this discussion from the point of view that it is valid for people to be offended by not being able to see someone's face and it is valid to try and regulate what a woman can and can't wear. All opinions are not equally as valid. We would never start a debate about whether or not all men should have 'potential rapist' written across their jumpers in public because that is not a ridiculous opinion. But when it comes to women, things are different. Newspapers are giving huge column inches to the genuine question 'should we regulate what women wear in public'. This would be laughable if it wasn't so terrifying. This should not be considered worthy of debate. By all means, lets discuss things before reaching for the weapons, but this particular debate starts from one side genuinely believing they have the right to dictate what others (and it's always women) get to do/wear/be in public. It's as valid as having a debate about whether men should be able to wear green trousers with a purple checked shirt with one side arguing that they shouldn't because it's offensive.

Beeyump · 19/09/2013 15:05

You can wear whatever the hell you want, but covering your face brings up a whole lot of issues. I think it's perfectly valid to have a problem with not seeing a persons face. (I seem to just constantly be writing 'face'. Brain freeze.)

wannaBe · 19/09/2013 15:06

so let's get this straight.

People are offended (for no other reason than because they choose to be) that a complete stranger in the street chooses to wear a face covering. Has this person approached you? no. Have they confronted you? no. yet you are offended by it and nobody apparently has the right to tell you you shouldn't be.

In contrast those same people who are offended make their feelings about the individual, their religion, the perception they give about themselves and other women and men and so on and so forth vocally known and then claim that they are not being offensive? Riiight.

Adventure why shouldn't I say to someone's face that if they are offended by the vale (which doesn't actually affect them personally) that they should get a grip? Would you say to someone's face some of the things that have been spouted on here? All the anti vale, anti muslim bile, all the pro "women faught for the right" bollocks? most of which is grossly offensive. Would you say to a woman's face that a vale is comparible to a swastika? Because that's what people have said on here and justified it in the name of "oppression". Hmm

Freedom of speech means that everyone had that freedom. So if someone feels they have the freedom to be as offensive as they like in promoting hate speech etc then others have the freedom to tell them to get a grip. That's how freedom works you know, everyone is entitled to it, not just those who think they should be.

AdventureTed · 19/09/2013 15:07

Many muslim and non muslim people see the veil as a political symbol.

YouTheCat · 19/09/2013 15:08

Well said, Wannabe.

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