Sister's affair

[madasa]

Hi am hoping for some advice so that I don't start a massive fallout with my sister.
Background which I will try to keep brief:
My sister has been with her DP for 20 years. Two children age 12 and 15.

They have always seemed to have a solid and happy relationship.
About a year ago things started to change. They were arguing a lot and she told me he was not wanting her to go out etc. etc. and she wasn't going to live like that.

A man's name was dropped into the conversation several times and suspicions began to form in my mind.

Fast forward to a couple of months ago. She has bought a new house with inheritance from my dear dad who died two years ago.

Flowers from this man (a work colleague) turned up at the house even though he was living with his partner.

Suffice to say she told me a couple of weeks ago that she had met someone. To her surprise I told her I already knew, told her his name and told her that in my opinion it had been going on for a lot longer ie. whilst she was still with her DP.

I know that it is none of my business and have agreed not to discuss the situation but that I am not a fool and that none of what she is saying adds up.

Now I have the situation re Xmas. We are staying at home and I have told her she and the children are more than welcome.

She has just asked if this man can come too. AIBU to not want to share my Xmas with this man that was cheating on his own partner whilst my sister was cheating on hers? I just cannot sit there playing happy families.

My sister has lied to me and also to her DP.
It's not the fact that she has someone else....relationships break up, life goes on. It's all the lies and deceit that have been going on.

Any ideas on how to reply to the text asking if he can come? (without using the words cheating and bastard!)
I don't want to fall out with her and I love her dearly but I just don't recognise her at the moment.

Thanks for any help

Oh FFS wrong thread. How did that happen (because was laughing too much at the other thread)

Primalass thank you for making me laugh

I think all the 'behind closed doors' stuff is immaterial to your dilemma. It is not about your sister and her ex-DP, and their relationship - it is about the fact that you feel she has lied to you, and you are reluctant (rightly IMO) to collude with her lies.

"Suffice to say she told me a couple of weeks ago that she had met someone. To her surprise I told her I already knew, told her his name and told her that in my opinion it had been going on for a lot longer ie. whilst she was still with her DP."
You say she was surprised; what else? How could she rationalise that you knew who he was without conceding that it had been going on a lot longer that she was willing to admit? Or did she just brush it under the carpet/change the subject?

I would go with the 'too soon' text. And just a text, since she saw fit to just text this request to you.

WhereYouLeftIt that is exactly what I mean !

She said that they were just friends at work until she split with her DP.
I told her that I knew he had sent flowers (mega huge expensive bouquet) to her house whilst still with his partner.

I told her lots of things I knew and she just ignored them.

There are so many things that do not add up. I have told her out and out that I think she is lying and that my head doesn't zip up at the back. She is a spitfire ...but not once has she rounded on me for calling her on her lies.

It's nothing to do with the fact that her relationship has finished.

I'd say that if it is a time that you are used to spending with your sister and her husband, then it is definitely too soon for the new man to share this. And the lies she has told have nothing to do with that, IMVHO. I think it's really too soon for the children to accept someone new at a very family-oriented time of the year. If the relationship continues, and you all have a chance to get to know him better, then next Christmas will be a different matter.

And I think, really, that she should respect this, especially as she knows that you know!

If you say it's too soon, what will she do? Will she come with her children but without her new man?

I don't know BIWI I have a feeling she would let me have the children while she went off with said man

I have just composed the following text message but not sent it yet:

I’ve made no bones about the fact that I believe this has been going on for a while whilst u were both with yr partners.

Its not my place to judge (although I do hate being taken for a fool) but I have to be honest and say I would not be comfortable.

I'm not saying we never want to meet him, after all he is your choice and I respect that but it is too soon.

Have you asked and how they would feel about it? (children)

Maybe we can come to some arrangement to keep everyone happy.

I don’t want to fall out with u but I have to be honest xx

How does that sound?

Madasa you say that in your opinion it has been going on much longer. But you don't know that. Isn't it possible that your sister found herself getting close to / falling for this new man, & ended the relationship with your BiL in order to start a relationship with NewMan?

Other than her namedropping him a lot, the only evidence you've given is that he sent flowers. I'm not an expert, but I suspect that sending a massive bunch of flowers to the marital home wouldn't be the actions of a man who was having an affair. It's not exactly.... subtle ..., is it?

It's understandable that you're not entirely comfortable with this new relationship - you've had a long relationship with your BiL, and are now expected to adjust to the new circumstances very quickly. But I think that YABU to be upset about her lies - based on what you've said here, I wouldn't conclude that she has lied to you at all.

if you were with a new partner and had been invited over to family for Christmas (which you were intending to spend with new dp) and family said "we'd rather you didn't bring your dp," what would you honestly do? Tell your dp to not go? or not go to visit the family...? Because I know what I would do.

Op - you still have no idea whether or to what extent your dsis was seeing this man before her and her xp split up. Just because she didn't fight your accusations of her lying means nothing. They may have been emotionally involved, they may not. They may have been sexually involved, they may not.

You still have no idea of the actual circumstances of their split. Your bil may be an abusive arsehole or she might - there are usually two sides to every story.

What is the state of play with her and her kids - have they been introduced to this man? and are they ok with him? Because if the kids are ok with it then it's IMO not for anyone else to say that it's too soon for them.

I split from my xh in July last year but didn't actually move out of the family home until February (time taken to sort finance etc, but we were in Separate rooms etc, had separation agreement and so on so was officially separated).

I started seeing someone in April, a friend of mine who I became close to. I've had the "it's too soon," speech from my family. He was introduced to my ds in May, my family were horrified until I pointed out to them that the reason he was introduced to ds was because my xh came round with ds to pick something up (he has a key for just such an eventuality), and ds let himself in while guy was here (xh knew he was here, I was open about it so that he could e.g. warn me if they were coming over so he could get out of the equation as was too soon etc, but he didn't pre-warn me). Now, there was nothing to see, we were sitting in the kitchen talking, and I've had enough male friends (innocently) over the years that ds wouldn't suspect anything Except xh then said to me that ds had a right to know I am seeing someone and that if I didn't tell him he would. So I had no choice. As it happens ds and bf get on fantastically.

My family I think are still somewhat of the opinion that it's too soo, but tbh they don't know or understand many of the circumstances.

If my family started making stipulations about new dp coming to their house because they weren't comfortable then I would politely tell them that if he wasn't welcome then I wouldn't be coming either.

Relationships end. sometimes they end because one party is having an affair, and sometimes that affair continues into a proper relationship. but if the family can't accept that then they either need to decide what is more important, their judgements of an unknown situation, or an ongoing relationship with their family member.

You need to have an honest conversation with your sister about the situation, not about the relationship with her now dp, but about everything that led to her split with her ex. give her the chance to tell you without you second guessing what happened before you start making judgements and stipulations

I think, actually, I would be having this conversation in person - or at least on the phone - rather than by text. It's too personal and serious to do by text. And much less chance of things getting misconstrued if you actually hear each other/see each other's body language.

I'm that you think she would actually leave her children with you to be with the new man though.

I understand what you are saying Ginocchio .

There are just so many things that don't add up. I was having dinner with her a few weeks ago and she spoke non stop about this man and what he had told her about all the problems he was having with his partner. A few days later she had gone out for the evening with him telling me that she had gone out with a girlfriend from work.....why lie?

In the space of this few days he had apparently split up with his partner.

If the flowers were innocent why rush them upstairs and be so secretive about the card?

And if ever there was a case of the lady doth protest too much it's my sister.

Every single text started with something along the lines of "there was nothing going on before" until I couldn't stand it any more and told her what I thought (not in an abusive way) and she didn't deny a single thing.

We have a similar situation in our family, except that it was easy to see that the husband (my relative) was controlling and there was little respect for his wife.

In reality their relationship was over, but neither wanted to change their children's lives etc, so stayed together going through the motions.

I was glad that she found someone else that have her the push to end the marriage. She is being judged and has it it said "what she has done to him" ( as you did which is very telling).

Relationships end, ideally you shouldn't sleep with other people whilst living together, but then you don't know that, that happened, either way it wasn't going on for years.

The only issue for me would be it being too soon for the children to be spending Christmas with him. There should be a gap of months of dating before the children start to build a relationship with the new man.

Just tell her you are uncomfortable about it all and it's too soon - it could ruin your Christmas and will surely be weird for all the children involved. You don't have to spend Christmas together - might be better this year to spend it apart and get to know this new guy and then take things from there.

"The only issue for me would be it being too soon for the children to be spending Christmas with him. There should be a gap of months of dating before the children start to build a relationship with the new man." I do totally agree with this, however if the children have already been introduced then is it really for the op to start saying that it's too soon for the children to be spending Christmas with him?

The op's issue is with nm spending Christmas at her house. the time he is spending with dsis's children, while she may have her own judgements on that is tbh not for her to stipulate.

I understand your hurt but think you are making a mistake. If your sister is now with this man and he is part of her family then, if you love your sister, you need to embrace him too. If you examine your motives carefully, you are in fact judging your DSis and without too much information.

Even if she WAS having an affair whilst both were married, how on earth could she have mentioned it to you? Wouldn't that have made her deception of her DH and her DC even more acute ie when they found out they would think everyone else knew first. Ok, not ideal, but even if it was happening, it was not prolonged and it was "real" in the sense that they are now both together. I expect your DSis felt dreadful not sharing with you (if indeed that was the case) but if you now hold that against her, you will ruin your relationship.

I don't think anyone can actually judge whether it is or isn't too soon for the DCs to be introduced etc to him. That is your sisters call whether anyone else agrees with it.

I think you have made up your mind about this regardless by the sounds of it. I just cannot understand why on earth you would exclude your sister in this way. If she feels enough for him to want him to spend christmas with her family then surely that should be enough? You don't respect her choice at all as you could actually make the effort to meet him before.

There were a few people who made a big deal about the fact they did not believe us about how long it had been going on etc but we do not see those people anymore as they were supposed to be our friends and support us regardless, we were not nasty people, it was just one of those things and admittedly not a perfect situation either of us wanted, but it was what is was and we needed our families support more than ever.

My issue is with the lies my sister has been telling me.

I would not judge her on whether she had introduced new man too soon to the children.

I hadn't even thought tbh about whether they have met.

It's the lies and deceit I can't get past right at this moment. I know I'm going to have to

Maybe she lied because she was worried about how you would react . . .

I know my posts sound harsh but I really do feel for you as I know I would be very upset in your position but I think you do need to get past that for the long term affect it could have on your relationship.

I take that on board MrsMelons I know I have got to get past this and I will....just not sure if I can do it by Christmas tho

Do you think you could meet them beforehand to see how it goes, then make a decision re chrsitmas? At least you can show your sister you are trying before saying a definite no. Christmas is a while off yet so you don't need to decide yet if you don't want to.

It's Christmas day at your house. If you're not ready for him to be there then just say so. It's not all about your sister.

I'm not even clear - are your sister and the man both now separated from their partners and officially together as a couple now?

I think you're making a lot of suppositions that you can't prove one way or the other (was she with him before or after they split? does that even matter?) and you're letting your own moral judgements and relationship with your ex-bro in law cloud this whole thing. If you've invited her to Christmas and this guy is her new partner unless he's a proven baby snatcher it would be rude to not let her bring him. Christmas is a long time away, if you're uncomfortable either get to know him before then, since he is now her partner, or uninvite all of them.

I think you have to separate the issues.

Being lied to is my big hot button, but it doesn't mean the liar is necessarily doing the wrong thing, for them. It just means they felt they had to lie about it.

I think you need to clear the air about the lying before you can even think about Christmas. I think you need to have a face to face conversation about things, tell your sister how you feel.

Then - and only once the dust has settled from that - can you discuss Christmas. I think she's being a bit daft if she thinks Christmas will just continue as normal but with a different 'dad'. Won't he want to see his own children? Won't your DN's want to see their dad too? It won't just be a replay of your 'normal' family Christmases.

Although wrt that, I'd be tempted to do as much as possible to make things normal for your DNs which may mean sucking up a little bit of distaste at who is sat round your Christmas table.

If you have a r'ship with her ex dp and feel bad for him, it is perfectly reasonable t say that while her life is none of your business and you love her dearly, you feel that this first xmas post-breakup it would be cruel to the ex for you to host the new dp.

I think if you say no to him coming to yours at Christmas, then he will feel rejected and disliked from the start. I completely understand what you are saying and how you feel - I loathe being lied to myself. But your issue is with your sister, not her new man. It may be something that turns into a long or even permanent relationship, and if things start off awkwardly between you and the new guy, then that could carry on in the future.

I would say yes to him coming, and if he does end up coming along (they may not even still be together then!), then treat him just as you would any new person in your sister's life.

You have a few months before Christmas to clear the air with your sister. Maybe you could text her that he can come, but you would like to talk to her in person about a few things very soon.