To ask if a school turning its canteen halal of kosher is them imposing a faith on people

[Souredstones]

I don't know how I feel about this but a Facebook post has really made me think if a school canteen is halal or kosher then isn't it imposing a faith on its pupils? Or is it? I don't know so I defer to the wise ladies of Mumsnet for a decision

Politely stepping over the "rational/irrational meat being payed over debate"

I do think this cannot be a "one rule fits all" scenario & I totally disagree that commercially produced Halal meat can be produced as humanely as our normal none Halal slaughter methods so it really bothers me that this is becoming the norm in so many places, including schools - we need to be able to make an informed choice & this practice does not sit well with animal welfare rights.

However, some in some areas the percentage of Muslim kids in certain schools can be far a higher than non Muslims & in those cases it makes sense to provide Halal meat only - provided that non Muslims are made FULLY aware & can make an informed choice & that GOOD vegetarian alternative is available or they can bring a packed lunch.

Where the opposite is true & the school askance is predominantly non Muslim, then let the Muslim kids eat vegetarian or a packed lunch - its not as if they won't be getting a good meal & more at home, so no one is going to starve are they

Fanjo - where is the evidence that I have done this? Stop mudslinging until you do.

Sometimes I truly HATE autocorrect

The evidence is in your posts. People just need to read them. Have to go.

rickin - but you are never ever going to get halal bacon or ham and why should dc at school be denied these meats?

If 70% of the children at school were vegetarian should the school only make veggie food and not cook any meat at all - would that be good sense or would it be forcing a value on others that maybe they don't want or agree with.

In fact why don't schools just cook veggie food then there would be no need for halal meat or meat

If its a predominantly Muslim school then why not just bring in a ham sandwich - if it's NOT a predominantly Muslim school then they wouldn't be being denied anything if it were organised the way I suggest

My DD can't have school meals as they don't adequately provide for her intolerances - she's a minority, so I accept that as being in her own interests that I provide her food & I don't see why others can't do the same

- but you are never ever going to get halal bacon or ham and why should dc at school be denied these meats?

In all honesty cheap ham and bacon (and it would be cheap at a school canteen) is poor quality, full of water salt and fillers and is generally not very nice. Its not a bad thing that these wouldn't be available. Whatever your opinion on the whole matter it isn't a bad thing that the worst meat for being reformed shite in a school (ham) is not available.

& I'd be very happy if a school only provided Veggie food

But then none of us eat meat so it would be a big improvement for AFAIC

Either way the animal dies. I am a meat eating atheist and couldn't care less if the meat I eat is halal or not.

The animals are been killed either way which isn't that great for them anyway.

Fanjo - give examples or go and defame someone else.

After eating the delicious Kosher cooking, I doubt you'd want to be any other religion ever again

'My DD can't have school meals as they don't adequately provide for her intolerances - she's a minority, so I accept that as being in her own interests that I provide her food & I don't see why others can't do the same'

^^ that. Most people manage if they are a minority in that particuarly school. I made packed lunches for all my kids and still do. So a mulsim majority school could do halal and those who dont want eat can have the veggie option or bring a packed lunch. In other schools, no halal.
And before anyone says 'free school meals', no-one is going to starve eating the veggie option once a day and there is always packed lunches. Mine all qualified for FSM but I still had to/do send in our own food for various reasons. It's one meal a day ffs

If its a predominantly Muslim school then why not just bring in a ham sandwich -if you are getting free school meals.

So you would be happy rocking if the school suddenly stopped doing veggie options and banned packed lunches? Giving your dc no choice at all? I mean I would be happy if the school did that and see that as a big improvement

'a mulsim majority school could do halal and those who dont want eat can have the veggie option or bring a packed lunch. In other schools, no halal.'
But buying is done on an LEAwide basis -not for an individual school.

Twistyfeet - if non muslims have their lunchtime rights at a school taken away, won't this breed resentment and mean that less non muslims will want to go there?

Won't this mean that there are muslim
and non muslim areas in Britain, and that where you live depends on which rights you can have?

Arf at 'lunchtime rights'.

Oooh I'm going to campaign for"lunchtime rights."

Ted, an omnipotent God could clearly care about humans and animals since he is dealing with non omnipotent human beings he does appear to prioritize how we treat each other above how we should treat animals.

Most of us have probably eaten Halal meat, without knowing it. I'm still an atheist.

Sorry on phone. Punctuation difficult. Should be s full stop before 'since'

I dislike the way halal & kosher meat is killed. But, were I to impose my view on a canteen, I'd be denying others their right to a decent meal.

If the kosher's really kosher, meat+dairy combos will be out. So no more lasagne. Apart from that, no, it's not an imposition.

(Haven't read thread, this has probably been said hundreds of times before )

Don't most of the main religions say something like

God put animals on earth for humans to use and abuse as they see fit. Animals are soulless beings, will never go to heaven, who are incapable of feeling pain as only humans can be sentient beings

We have moved on a great deal in our understanding of the world and the animals we share it with. Which is why slaughter practices and the way we view animals has changed. I mean who knew that the common pigeon or a rat were actually highly intelligent creatures? Or that the average dog has the same level of intelligence as the average 2-3 year old child?

As science advances the theories or facts that are diss proven are discarded and replaced. Yet this does not readily happen with religions, they often seem far more outdated and backwards in their views especially those views that can easily be diss proven

Thankfully we no longer throw animals off buildings in the name of religion.

If you are going to impose Halal on children who have little to no understanding with regards to slaughter methods perhaps they should be made aware of how different religions have treated animals throughout the centuries and let them decide for themselves if they'd like to eat it. To be fair how animals have and are treated in religion should be taught as part of RE but it sadly isn't. It's a very interesting topic to research :)

You're quite right "din dins privileges" it is.

Lackingenergy - ignorance is blissful and convenient. It means you never have to think for yourself or have your conscience telling you that you are causing needless suffering.

can you imagine the fuss from some parents if you try telling their children that meat is animals I remember years ago a friend completely freaking when I mentioned in passing that a lamb chop came from sheep that lived in fields. She definately didnt want her kids to know meat was from animals because 'they wouldnt eat it'

Would the non muslims be allowed to eat non halal during Ramadan, if no one else is eating anyway, or if the muslims who are eating are then the minority?