Sleepovers - prioritising friends over family

[motheroflight]

I'm just feeling a bit upset and not sure if IABU. A few years ago, DCs stayed with their cousins at my sister's house for a couple of weeks due to unforseen circumstances. DCs played up a lot (had just been through some tough times, long backstory) but it became the longest fortnight of their lives due to the hostility to which they were subjected. It was made very clear that we were a liability and we were not wanted there. I even heard a phone message from sibling to GPs telling them that it was too much and we really needed to leave as they could not stand it any more. You would have thought that we had been there for years rather than a couple of weeks in August. it got to the point where we were excluded from their days out and not even offered drinks when they were all having them. We really had nowhere else suitable to go and felt extremely cheap. Even the youngest child became openly hostile and rude and condescending. DCs never behaved well, as I said, but nothing beyond the usual naughty excited occasionally hyper (in bed at a reasonable time and I would keep them out of the house as much as possible to avoid conflict with their cousins). Previously, the relationship had been good it has just about returned to being fine several years on but the wounds have not completely healed.

At the time, sister explained that they were terribly unsociable and the idea of house-guests never came naturally to them and was too much to bear.

Now, one of those children's friends is starting boarding school in the UK as parents live abroad and the girl (13) who was an old friend of one of the children (but haven't seen each other for ages and not exactly inseparable) has asked to spend every weekend at their house. My sister has readily and happily agreed to this even though a long round trip to the home counties is involved.

This is the AIBU bit - we go back a lot further than someone who is (at best) an old acquaintance - am I right to think that sister is rather out of order - she barely knows the parents and whilst I can see it as a good turn on her part, it is quite telling how enthusiastic she is about the whole idea and taking on this regular commitment when my DCs are not considered suitable for sleepovers, parties where their schoolfriends are invited round.

MOL, I have 3 DC, two are very calm, very obliging and mostly very well behaved. All due to my wonderful parenting, no doubt. The other has SN and can be very challenging, can be very rude and energetically clumsy. Of course, that must also be down to my parenting.

I'm sorry you have had such negative responses from some posters. I can understand how hurt you feel. You expect it from friends but you had hoped family would be more sympathetic and tolerant. Unfortunately, as others have stated, you can't choose your family.

Some posters have given you good advice, you always get a mixed bag on AIBU. Some posters need to remember that we are all just one accident or illness away from having disability in our own families and be less intolerant.

Well, because other than GPs and childless friends, there is no longer a single family with children who is willing to have a usual, sustained give-and-take kind of friendship with us. Clubs and school are all very well but those skills are different and don't translate. The situation of visiting other children at their homes has become some kind of grand event like visiting Disneyland and those families wont put up with it for the duration of the time it painfully takes to adjust. They just ditch all possibilities of a friendship or stick to park visits or trips out which are not the same as sleepovers.

You posted to ask if you were being unreasonable. The vast majority of posters have said you were being unreasonable. Even with your subsequent posts you have, in lots of people's opinions, been unreasonable.

Dont sulk, if you dont like answer, dont ask the question.

we are all just one accident or illness away from having disability in our own families and be less intolerant.

Wise words Ellen, but I know they are so difficult to appreciate unless you find yourself in this situation. I despair for them because I know the value of close friendships in my own life and I wonder if they will ever develop the skills to gain acceptance and intimacy.

And stop harping on about the special needs thing. Yes we know it can be hard. But you can still control your child and supervise them so they aren't breaking stuff that belongs to others.

Well, there's the voice of compassion then. Charming. Not.

MOF, but they don't always behave negatively. Why do you think that is?

You could say that about all children, those with SNs or NT. What's the point? My DS1 (7yo) is currently being very quiet, wriggling around a bit, but relaxed (for him) - an hour ago he was running around the house screaming because a voice on the television was high pitched and upset him. Children with SNs can change their behaviour dramatically depending on the circumstances - how they're feeling, what sensory input they are coping with, and any number of other variables. DS1 can be ticking along just fine and then completely meltdown because the hum of the lights in a room are upsetting to him - something that a lot of people wouldn't even hear, but he cannot shut it out. Add personal stress or trauma to it, and he will come unglued at almost every little bump he comes across. But right now... he's got very little sensory aggravation and I've set up this evening time for him as a pattern to allow him to wind down (a healthy dose of melatonin doesn't hurt either!).

Not sure what you're getting at with that question, really.

Thanks Triggle - well if that is the NT consensus then I am obviously very very unreasonable. Infact, it is morally reprehensible that I even dared to pose the question. I should have my rights to leave the SN sections revoked with immediate effect. How dare I!

Mother of flight. While I do appreciate how hard it can be your attitude has come across as not very nice. You continued to drip feed when posters refused to back you up. You have to suck this up. Or join a group where you feel your kids can be accepted. Have you thought that maybe the problem lies with you and not others ? You may find behaviour acceptable that others don't. I also don't need to be told I am one accident away from illness or disability. Been there done that. You need to accept you cannot control your sisters views.

I think I'd have had enough of any visitors by 2 weeks, even if they were impecably behaved.

I suspect you've also underestimated the effect of your dc's bad behaviour may have had on their cousins.
I had a friend whose children had been through a very traumatic (and totally unexpected) 6 months. The little girl went very introverted, but the little boy would do things like deliberately break things for the sake of it. Mother did discipline well, for each incident, but there was always one point where this happened.
Dd1 who was only about 4yo at the time, was a very careful little soul who hated things to be damaged. So you can imagine her distress as she saw her things deliberately broken. She got to the point that if I said they were coming round she would be found hiding and shaking.
I spoke to my friend, and we agreed that one of us would stay absolutely by his side the whole time. And this worked well, but not perfectly.
But she'd be coming round for the afternoon, not two weeks.

I agree \\\DeWe and mayn=be I have been coming across as self entitled and I need to accept that those are my sister's views (she is prob a lot more accommodating than some on here!). I respect her right to invite whomever she likes without justifying her decision to me. I regret the loss to my DCs for whom I believe that no amount of good discipline would bring them in line with their peers to such an extent that they would win the approval I might have hoped for. Maybe there was a learning opportunity within the safety of the family network and maybe this has been lost forever. We outstayed our welcome, I wish things had worked out differently.

I hope I haven't been rude MOL. I don't think I have been.

I don't grasp how one SN child translates to none of your dc having friends especially because, from what you've written, the friendships seem to fail based on your dc's behaviour, which is why I suggested really taking a long, hard look at them and figuring it out!

It's either that or keep grieving for relationships that are more than likely never going to exist between your family and your dsis'.

Thanks Polter, it did cross my mind but it would have been inappropriate coming from me! I regret the way the campaign seems to come up within threads in a coercive capacity time and time again or maybe those are the only ones I end up reading.

I'm sorry, but you seem to be so focussed on sleep overs. If your children are unable to behave at sleep overs, then they shouldn't be doing them - whether they are invited or not. YOU know what they are capable of, and should adjust acceptances in light of that. You allowed them a sleep over when they couldn't cope and now you have to deal with the consequences of that I'm afraid.

As an adult, with a good relationship with one of my sisters and a wish to do the best by my nephews and nieces I would agree that I would do far more for them than I would a friend. HOWEVER, if my DC's lives were too disrupted then I would not put up with it, and would tailor get togethers to suit that.

As a child I vividly remember being forced to spend time with a cousin who I loathed, and who used to cause me no end of trouble. I have nothing to do with her now, and have nothing to do with my aunt who used to try to 'punish' me if I wasn't treating her child as nicely as she felt I should be.

All in all though, I think 2 weeks in a crisis, is something that you should be able to rely on them for. It's not like you were staying there indefinitely, and I'm sorry that you didn't get that.

It's difficult, motheroflight as I know that DS1 would be an absolute basketcase alternating with being a nightmare if we had to stay somewhere else for 2 weeks - even if it was a well-known and loved family member. It would just be so far out of his comfort zone that he'd be all over the place and his behaviour would be extremely difficult to contain.

However, I know that my sisters (who live abroad, and thankfully I've never had to face this issue) would be very critical of his behaviour if we had to stay with them. Even though their children (now adults) were not that well behaved when they were younger. I think family can sometimes alternate between being the most tolerant and the least tolerant - often because of the familiarity as well as being more comfortable saying things bluntly that an acquaintance or friend might be more subtle about.

I suspect that part of this is simply that you're hurt that your sister (and her family) couldn't see past the behaviour to see the recent trauma and upset that she couldn't be more tolerant or supportive, even though you recognise that the behaviour was poor.

Her invitation to this young girl to stay weekends, however, has nothing to do with your stay - it's not comparable as it's miles different circumstances. I wouldn't give it another thought. I would imagine it's a novelty that will wear off relatively quickly - I certainly wouldn't want to commit to someone else being in our house every weekend.

Also, I think that if there are SNs involved and not just spoilt brat behaviour (like my ever so delightful cousin) then a LOT of leeway needs to be given for that.

walter - there are SNs which are readily obvious, more hidden ones which can get diagnosed with the requisite time and money and finally those which are quite obv to closest family but not priority for schools and doctors. One of min e falls into the second category and two in the third which is why I mention the former's special needs whilst acknowledging that all three have behavioural issues outside the norm - many posters on this thread would readily agree.

MOL, I hope my question wasn't insensitive. I didn't realise that all of your dc have SN.

I admit that I have no experience of it bar the daughter of one good friend, though I suspect the son of another friend has SN.

I do stand by the point though, that much as you'd like to be able to change your dsis' behaviour and opinions, you're wasting your energy and your time would be far better spent concentrating on the people who are supportive and more understanding of your dc and the situation you are in.

Is this for real ?
Op I don't think your being honest. If you had been through a tough time and you kids were being uncontrollable and being very badley behaved while you were sitting back .... Relaxed if that was years ago it would have been forgiven and forgotten and put down to that they were traumatised.

Unless it was something so unforgivable OR the dc behaviour is still bad. People don't generally hold grudges against children.

Your sister sounds like she should have had an apology and maybe the fact you never gave her one might be the reason she is estranged from you.

You sound terribly entitled. They are your dc and if they cause offence to people and you don't stop it people will avoid them. You have created this situation .

The fact that you are jealous over her daughter having friends over is statement about where you are in your head.

Blinkard and entitled.

What was the terrible thing that happened as that could go to done why explaining why their behaviour was so bad.

People don't generally hold grudges against children.

You have obviously never met my older sister or my parents.

What was the terrible thing that happened as that could go to done why explaining why their behaviour was so bad

I don't think the specifics are necessary, are they?

if that was years ago it would have been forgiven and forgotten and put down to that they were traumatised.

Just because something traumatic happened, doesn't mean a person gets to be horrid and badly behaved to others.

Also my kids had plenty of experiences which were different and exciting. I could however control them.

Your children sound like a nightmare , surely even children with SN know that you don't go to other people's houses and break things and throw things at animals

Also I'm sure many special needs children aren't naughty. In fact I'm sure the parents of those kids maybe have a go at controlling them.

Your children and you need to learn boundaries and behaviour control. Special needs or not.

And stop harping on about the special needs thing. Yes we know it can be hard. But you can still control your child and supervise them so they aren't breaking stuff that belongs to others.

And as far as parenting skills go, why do you think your kids behave sometimes and not at others? It's not as if they don't ever behave well. They can when it suits them.

Also while I'm having a rant my twins lived through a huge trauma age 11. One which not a lot of children have to see, however they certainly didn't go around breaking toys and being rude to people afterwards.

Have you thought that maybe the problem lies with you and not others?

I don't grasp how one SN child translates to none of your dc having friends especially because, from what you've written, the friendships seem to fail based on your dc's behaviour, which is why I suggested really taking a long, hard look at them and figuring it out!

sigh... Really must ask MNHQ for a [head - desk] smiley.

To repeat Polter's advice....

Can I just draw people's attention to MNs This is my child campaign?

www.mumsnet.com/campaigns/this-is-my-child

Oh triggles do take off your rosé tinted glassed love. You don't know my life. The op asked for opinions. I have mine. Her children special needs or not behaved badly enough to be excluded from someone's home. That person has the right to do that. Special needs or not. The op needs to address the issues that are occurring and realise she cannot tell otherwise they have to interact with her kids. Special needs or not. And don't presume anything about my children. When yours and the op kids have lived through what my kids lived through then come back and quote me. Yes my kids were naughty however I disciplined them rather than get onto a forum moaning about others treating them badly.

Triggles I'm not sure why you've highlighted my post at the end of your essay of quotes there.

Mine being the one about one child with SN. What exactly was wrong with me questioning it?

OP subsequently explained that she believes all of her dc have some form of SN. I understand more clearly now the struggle with forming and keeping friendships.

Confused by you needing a desk for your head about it tbh.

So all your children have special needs? Why didn't you simply say this earlier in the thread, you might have gotten an entirely different response? . You mention sleepovers in almost every post; I doubt they're as important as you seem to imagine, and in the light of the revelation that all three have additional needs of one sort or another, you will probably have to accept sleepovers are not for your children.
I don't get why, if your children behave impeccably when you're there, you feel such a need to farm them out?
Invite children over for playdates; they may then be reciprocated.
Stop imagining anybody wants to take all three overnight.

OP, why do you have a focus on sleepovers and how old are your kids?