Sleepovers - prioritising friends over family

[motheroflight]

I'm just feeling a bit upset and not sure if IABU. A few years ago, DCs stayed with their cousins at my sister's house for a couple of weeks due to unforseen circumstances. DCs played up a lot (had just been through some tough times, long backstory) but it became the longest fortnight of their lives due to the hostility to which they were subjected. It was made very clear that we were a liability and we were not wanted there. I even heard a phone message from sibling to GPs telling them that it was too much and we really needed to leave as they could not stand it any more. You would have thought that we had been there for years rather than a couple of weeks in August. it got to the point where we were excluded from their days out and not even offered drinks when they were all having them. We really had nowhere else suitable to go and felt extremely cheap. Even the youngest child became openly hostile and rude and condescending. DCs never behaved well, as I said, but nothing beyond the usual naughty excited occasionally hyper (in bed at a reasonable time and I would keep them out of the house as much as possible to avoid conflict with their cousins). Previously, the relationship had been good it has just about returned to being fine several years on but the wounds have not completely healed.

At the time, sister explained that they were terribly unsociable and the idea of house-guests never came naturally to them and was too much to bear.

Now, one of those children's friends is starting boarding school in the UK as parents live abroad and the girl (13) who was an old friend of one of the children (but haven't seen each other for ages and not exactly inseparable) has asked to spend every weekend at their house. My sister has readily and happily agreed to this even though a long round trip to the home counties is involved.

This is the AIBU bit - we go back a lot further than someone who is (at best) an old acquaintance - am I right to think that sister is rather out of order - she barely knows the parents and whilst I can see it as a good turn on her part, it is quite telling how enthusiastic she is about the whole idea and taking on this regular commitment when my DCs are not considered suitable for sleepovers, parties where their schoolfriends are invited round.

[PresidentServalan]

at throwing things at a family pet - no wonder that people are not queuing up to invite your DC to their houses....

[PresidentServalan]

my other two are not universally recognised as SN - their behavioural issues are just something that I know about as a mother

Really???

[Morloth]

What do you actually want from your sister?

[Cravey]

No sorry op you are making excuses . You drip fed. And now are trying to make those of us who said ywu look badly. Sorry. I missed the bit about throwing things at a family pet. I have to say of that happened here special needs or not you wouldn't be welcome in my house either.

[PresidentServalan]

Cravey Spot on. Any child in those circs would have been removed from my home immediately and not welcome back.

[givemestrengthorlove]

I think OP feels that her children were being difficult, for reasons as yet unclear but that her sister could have felt more for her rather than being annoyed about it. It's a difficult one because everyone has their own personality and tolerance levels of what they expect and can put up with.
By her sisters admission she finds house guests hard, but OP was a bit dismayed to find she is willing to give up every weekend for a stranger yet never have her kids in the house again to stay.
YANBU to be hurt and disappointed but YABU to feel you can change or influence this, and sad though it is, you have to take it on the chin.

Your sister is happy because the friend is her dc friend and they get along and will be happy together .

[shouldistayorshouldagonooooooo]

not universally recognised as SN just something you know as their mother [shocked]

Lady you are strange !

[Trigglesx]

not universally recognised as SN just something you know as their mother [shocked] hmm

Lady you are strange !

Is that necessary? Really?!?! If you took the time to read the "This is my child" section of MN, you'd see that actually there are LOADS of children that do not have an official diagnosis that actually DO have SNs to some degree that can affect their lives. Some people struggle for years to get the right help needed to get a proper assessment so they can get a diagnosis - one that can again take a long time. It's not like going in and getting a diagnosis for diabetes or a broken arm or something, where it's fairly straight forward - most take months of evaluations and assessments as well as observation.

Educational support as well as DLA is based on demonstrated needs, NOT on diagnosis for this very reason.

[Floggingmolly]

not universally recognised as sn
I didn't want advice restricted to the fact that they have sn. . Well, do they or don't they? Because it is actually relevant.
Have they been diagnosed as having special needs, or do they simply have behavioural problems ? You said earlier "the bad behaviour never went as far as causing damage to fixtures and fittings"... That sounds pretty bad
They don't appear to have any friends, nobody wants them around, and you seem to be looking outside your immediate family for reasons why that is, and imagining things would be better if only they had sleepovers.
Is that the real issue, op? You don't mention a partner; are you actually in desperate need of some respite? It's so hard to get the full story from your disjointed posts.

[Mumsyblouse]

motherofflight it's quite hard to tell what's going on here, but clearly you are upset. I have a few suggestions. One is to let the thing go with your sister. I understand that she was not how you wanted her to be, I guess what happened was that she imagined she could be kind and take you in, but the reality of two weeks with three out of control (understandably so, but still out of control) children was just too much for her. Don't be too harsh on her, she failed to be a perfect sister, but perhaps you were also not the perfect guests, lesson learned and I think your feelings about her being the last refuge of acceptance are just again too much to put on her. This doesn't make her a bad sister, or you, try to mend the bridges on this one.

Secondly, it's hard to tell but it sound like all your three have behavioural issues of one kind or another, or perhaps the two non-sn children are just really very lively and this is too much for others. You talk a lot about families withdrawing from you, but I wonder whether this is because, en masse, you are rather too much as a group. I think supporting individual friendships, such as asking children round to your house (not theirs if they are liable to flip out) and on an individual one at a time basis might be the way to go. No-one will have a sleepover with three older behaviourally challenged children! But that doesn't mean they can't have good friends, or always meet at the park, or as they get older, go off and socialise individually by themselves. I think coming as a pack and always interacting with families is not the right way to approach this- and one reason people may be backing off.

I hope you can make sense of this, I think your posts are just driven by the emotions of what was clearly a difficult time of crisis for your family, and that sense of disappointment (even though your sister is human just like you) when you were a bit let down and excluded. But I think now things are calming down you need to move on from this two week thing, rebuilt the relationships with your sister, accept perhaps the cousins won't be close, and work on how the children can individually be encourage to build closer friendships on a one-to-one rather than you as a group. I hope it goes ok.

[Mumsyblouse]

And I do get what you mean about having children with some issues who are not diagnosed. One of mine has certain traits which mean that sometimes she's really inappropriate, I have considered and dismissed the idea of seeking a diagnosis as she functions really well most of the time, has good friends, great at school and so on, but every now and again I am cringing at her behaviour/things she says because she has real difficulty with being socially appropriate (although at other times this is not the case). I can't leap in and launch into a long explanation about how she's a tiny bit like some diagnoses but basically happy and functioning but on this one occasion is being weird, it's too much. I know what's going on and so does my family and we all just wince a bit and know she's loveable but needs more guidance than some other emotionally very intelligent children. It is perfectly possible to know your child is not quite the same as some others but not seek or think you would get a forma sn diagnosis.

[2rebecca]

Your first post is confusing as initially it sounds as though your kids were staying with their aunt and uncle unaccompanied but it then sounds more like you ? and their father were there as well. In that case the kids weren't badly behaved, they were inadequately parented.
Upset and emotional children need firm parenting as much as happy ones. Playing up and being a pain in the bum doesn't make anything easier.
There are 2 seperate things here.
Your sister doesn't want you and your children staying in her house because she thinks you can't control your kids and she does want a well behaved 13 year old staying with her.
If you want your kids to be invited for sleepovers then it's up to you and their dad to teach them to behave politely in other people's houses. Your sister shouldn't be expected to never invite anyone to her house just because she doesn't want you there.
You said this happened several years ago so I'm surprised you are connecting the 2 events. If things have been frosty between your kids and their cousins for a few years I'm surprised your kids now they are older still want to go for sleep overs there and wouldn't rather play with their friends.

[MidniteScribbler]

OP, you seem very fixated on sleepovers. Is it that you are struggling with your children yourself and feel the need for a night off? You don't mention a DP, and dealing with children children with behavioural issues is tough for any parent, let alone one on their own. You also mention a trauma, and I'm wondering if you should see your GP for a referral for counselling which may help you. MN is great, but it's not a substitute for professional help when you are struggling.

Getting back to the friendships, are you expecting people to invite your children over and you drop them off? Unfortunately, your children may just simply not be ready for this type of interaction yet if they are damaging property and hurting animals. Friendships are a two way street - have you invited anyone that your children seem to be making a connection with to your own home for a playdate? Or go with the other parent to the park or other location where things are on neutral territory and you can supervise your child. Ultimately, ensuring your children are not damaging other people's property, hurting their pets or being rude is your responsibility, and that means for now, that unsupervised playdates aren't really an option. Also, if other parents think that you just want to drop your kids off and get a break for a few hours (which lets face it, we all love to have the chance to do), then they'll feel that the relationship is one sided, and that you are using them, which means invitations will dry up. If you are seen to be reciprocating, being around to supervise your children and their behaviour, and really working hard to develop friendships, then people will respond to that.

Please do seek some help if you feel that you aren't coping right now, or just need a break. There's no shame in it, we all need someone to talk to and a night off occasionally. Good luck OP.

[Isetan]

YABU to feel hurt that your children were slighted. They are your children and you worry about them and their development and are naturally protective/ defensive of them.

However, YABVU about your sister and her children. She put you and your children up in an emergency situation. Your expectation that it would be a great opportunity to socialise your children in the light of their challenging behaviour was unwise.

You have learnt, naturally, to see beyond their poor behaviour because there are many other positive facets of their personalities and you're their mum. However, it is very unrealistic to expect others, especially children (family included), to do the same.

I know you are upset but try and look at it from their point of view. I don't think you are a bad parent but parenting styles differ and I for one find it very difficult being around poorly behaved children and parents whose parenting styles are 'less hands on'.

Your children were not rejected but their poor behaviour was and as their mum you find it difficult to make the distinction. The teenage friend of your niece staying is not comparable to your stay, you are comparing apples with pears.

It sounds like your stay with your sister was out of necessity, immediately following a trauma. A time when you were probably at your most vulnerable and sensitive and when you wanted you and your children to be looked after for a bit.

Being upset is natural but a waste of your energies, It was a challenging moment in time for everyone, let it go. Focus on the now and the achievable goals that will help your children socialise better when outside your home, you may wish to seek professional support. It is our job as parents to prepare our kids for the world, not the other way round.

[Isetan]

MidniteScribbler talks a lot of sense.

[RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief]

Tbh, I would only entertain sleepovers up to age of 12 where the children get on predominantly without incident during a play date, and where I knew the child reasonably well ( i.e. where I felt they would be comfortable telling me if something was wrong, they're scare of the dark, they want to go home etc). There are many children I'm totally happy for DC to play with where I would not do a sleepover. It's not a reflection on them- it's a reflection on the dynamic. Just thinking back to my own experiences, the number of arguments at sleepovers was probably about 10 times the level at a normal playdate, so they test friendships, plus everything seems worse in the night, so you get tears over really trivial spats.

On that basis, I think you need to give up the sleepover obsession- it's a step too far for your children to cope with. To summarise, it seems that you feel your children typically behave well (home, school, large gatherings etc) but can be unpredictable in one-to-one situations in unfamiliar environments, and that this can lead to aggression and destructive behaviour.

Are you telling the parents of these issues in advance of one to one playdates at their houses? I would be pretty peed off if something let me look after a child without telling me that there could be behavioural challenges? If I didnt know, then of course I'm going to interpret that as just bad behaviour and not want to repeat the experience.

I understand that you dont want to label your children but it seems you flick-flack between 2 of them being NT to the stage where you cant understand why they cant go to sleepovers, and that they have SN so people need to cut them some slack, and there's an inconsistency between those 2 viewpoints.

[CoolaSchmoola]

'I have never accepted her offer to stay another night since that day. I probably never would.'

I am so confused. I have just read this thread from start to finish and on page SIX you say your sister HAS since offered to have you to stay?

Wasn't the point of the OP that you were upset that she was having another child to stay but didn't want yours as she didn't like overnight guests, but six pages on she has apparently offered to have you all stay at some point since?

I think maybe your emotional response to your children's perceived treatment by others is preventing a more objective view. It's understandable, but it is causing confusion.

Personally I would only want to have Close Friends of my children sleepover so I knew the dynamic would work. So if our children weren't close friends I wouldn't be offering to have your child overnight, anySN wouldn't even come into the equation.

If they were close friends and my child wanted a sleepover with yours it is at that point their SN would come into it. I would be asking myself if I felt capable and comfortable offering overnight care to your child in the light of their specific needs. The decision depends entirely on what those needs are. I like to think I would be as accommodating and accepting as possible, but if I felt I couldn't keep everyone in the home, including your child, safe and happy, or wasn't sure I could effectively manage your child's behaviour then at that point the answer would be no. If I had strategies to manage your child's behaviour, then it would be different, but you struggled to manage your own children's behaviour at your sisters, and they have also been challenging at later playmates, so expecting others, without your knowledge or experience, to manage your children's behaviour without you there is unfair and unrealistic.

[CoolaSchmoola]

*play Dates not playmates.

My suggestion would be to have children over to your house, so in your children's comfort zone, for playdates and that their parents come too.

I would explain to the parents when issuing the invitation that your children have sn and that you are trying to help them build friendships. Having the parents there would enable them to see how well behaved your children are at home, and over time give you the opportunity to build friendships with the parents, explain your children's behaviour in new situations and because they know you and your children and you will have had the opportunity to explain potential behaviour and strategies if they visited, they may be more inclined to offer to have your children over, feel more aware of any potential behaviour, feel more equipped to manage it, and be more tolerant than a parent who doesn't know your child or you well being suddenly faced with challenging behaviour on a playdate They would be more inclined to persevere as they will have seen their good behaviour for themselves rather than inviting over a child they don't know very well and only experiencing the negative.

Because your children have additional needs you

[CoolaSchmoola]

Gah - phone posted too soon.

Because your children have additional needs you will need to accept that their friendships may need a lot of groundwork and input by you to help build them you a point where they are strong ones, and part of that will involve you befriending the parents.

It's a shame that things have to initially be so much hard work, but it isn't insurmountable.

[2rebecca]

I've not found sleepovers to be that common. Some kids' parents seem very keen on them and I think a minority of kids have alot but many of my kids' friends have both parents working like us so the parents don't want the hassle of extra kids at the weekend. My son had no sleep overs at primary school and only a handful over secondary school usually for parties. My daughter's had one or 2 a year since mid primary school. We reciprocated the same number but I never had more than 2 kids round at once and preferably just one.

[Floralnomad]

So in summary the OP has one child with SN ,and 2 with behavioural issues .She wants her sister to invite them to sleepover but wouldn't accept an invitation if she did ask them to . trigglesx apparently thinks ( by highlighting my post in hers) that its acceptable for children with SN to mistreat family pets . I think that sums it up .

[Snazzyenjoyingsummer]

Whatever else has gone on here, there has certainly been drip-feeding. There is also inconsistency as RichMan says in whether the OP wants a response based on her children having SN, or whether she wants to have that completely disregarded for the purposes of this thread (which she said at one point). I'd also agree with the posts just above that sleepovers are not as common as they might seem to be, and fo quite a few children - whether SN or NT or somewhere in the middle - sleepovers really don't suit them and are therefore not a practical option. OP, you need to think about how best to build your children's friendships in ways other than sleepovers. And given that, as Coola says just above, your sister has since offered to have you again in an emergency, I think you really need to let go of the resentment about the earlier incident. It's not helpful and things have moved on since then.

[shouldistayorshouldagonooooooo]

I honestly don't know how op can feel resentment tbh! Her sister and dc were the ones mistreated !

You don't have to 'like' family members, it's not the law.

[motheroflight]

Thanks for your comments - we do all like each other, this is a good family relationship, not an estranged one by any stretch of the imagination. I actually agree that my family is the problem rather than hers and her children were stressed and upset by what happened - perhaps disproportionately so at times as they have had quite a sheltered and privileged upbringing. I still think that it is character building to experience/observe a wider variety of people and problems than she would like her children to be exposed to. There is no knowing how their lives will be in adulthood and a little pain and acknowledgment now would ensure that they are not reaching for the smelling salts every five minutes once they leave home.

[Floggingmolly]

So you want her children exposed to your children's extreme behaviours as a life experience? . You're not at all clear or consistent as to what the actual problem is, tbh, or what role your sister should have in sorting it all out...