Sleepovers - prioritising friends over family

[motheroflight]

I'm just feeling a bit upset and not sure if IABU. A few years ago, DCs stayed with their cousins at my sister's house for a couple of weeks due to unforseen circumstances. DCs played up a lot (had just been through some tough times, long backstory) but it became the longest fortnight of their lives due to the hostility to which they were subjected. It was made very clear that we were a liability and we were not wanted there. I even heard a phone message from sibling to GPs telling them that it was too much and we really needed to leave as they could not stand it any more. You would have thought that we had been there for years rather than a couple of weeks in August. it got to the point where we were excluded from their days out and not even offered drinks when they were all having them. We really had nowhere else suitable to go and felt extremely cheap. Even the youngest child became openly hostile and rude and condescending. DCs never behaved well, as I said, but nothing beyond the usual naughty excited occasionally hyper (in bed at a reasonable time and I would keep them out of the house as much as possible to avoid conflict with their cousins). Previously, the relationship had been good it has just about returned to being fine several years on but the wounds have not completely healed.

At the time, sister explained that they were terribly unsociable and the idea of house-guests never came naturally to them and was too much to bear.

Now, one of those children's friends is starting boarding school in the UK as parents live abroad and the girl (13) who was an old friend of one of the children (but haven't seen each other for ages and not exactly inseparable) has asked to spend every weekend at their house. My sister has readily and happily agreed to this even though a long round trip to the home counties is involved.

This is the AIBU bit - we go back a lot further than someone who is (at best) an old acquaintance - am I right to think that sister is rather out of order - she barely knows the parents and whilst I can see it as a good turn on her part, it is quite telling how enthusiastic she is about the whole idea and taking on this regular commitment when my DCs are not considered suitable for sleepovers, parties where their schoolfriends are invited round.

[WorrySighWorrySigh]

I always saw family as a source of refuge

Cant you see that your sister took you in at a time of need?

You should be singing her praises from the roof tops not whining about her years later because she doesnt force her children to welcome yours when by the sounds of it their behaviour is intolerable away from home.

[motheroflight]

Other children do not want to seem to take the friendships to the next level. they would be invited to whole class parties but not small group outings and sleepovers (which increasingly dominate and become the norm as they get older). Nobody seems to like them enough or feel comfortable enough in their company. I invite my friends round and they get on brilliantly but these are childless (mainly single) friends. All the friendships I invested in since birth (via NCT groups and countless similar) have come to nothing. The other children have become great friends for the most part and whilst the parents seem to prefer talking to me rather than to each other (in many cases), this does not extend to their children. Early playdates were great but as time went on, the pulling away would begin until it was very much a matter of deciding if I wanted the parents as adult friends in a child-free capacity.

[Cravey]

But the pint is your children aren't seen as monsters because one has special needs. They are seen as monsters because they are badly behaved. You can't expect kids to like others if they are being rude and breaking toys. Also I'm sure many special needs children aren't naughty. In fact I'm sure the parents of those kids maybe have a go at controlling them. You are slightly odd op. it's your sisters home. It's her choice who stays there. Not yours.

[Cravey]

So it's not just your sister then op who doesn't want the kids around them. I think in the nicest possible way that it might be time to take a step back and look at how you are parenting etc. or maybe get some outside help. I have to be honest I wouldn't want kids around who break stuff and are uncontrollable. And that would be my right. Not yours. Or your kids.

[defineme]

Op, I feel real empathy op. I have 3 kids and 1 has sn. I love my dbro and we get on well-he has 1 nt child. However, they clearly find our family visits utterly exhausting and the same when they come and stay with us... I would love it if we were a delight to host, but apparently not!

I remember I had tears when this became obvious, I felt that if my own family can't embrace us -who can?
I got over it though, it's a shame your dsis has obviously drawn a line with your family, but what can you do except get over it?

What cheers me up is that we go away camping with a group of families and no one finds us unbearable, same when we went away with dh's family (separate hotel rooms). So obviously, when people don't have to actually share accommodation with us, they can cope with my family!

Not everyone will feel this way about your family.

[zatyaballerina]

Why do you think it's your sisters responsibility to socialise your kids? Pre school children are easily socialised with regular trips to the park to play with other children, playgroups etc... Once they get to school there are plenty of potential friends available.

Children aren't going to naturally know how to behave properly, they need to be taught. It's the parents job to teach them manners and consideration for others, how you need to be nice to the other kids if you want them to play with you etc...

Your sister is not responsible for your kids social issues, you are.

[motheroflight]

Well, i would not describe myself as an ineffective parent and I am not blaming SN for this situation. It is just the fact that it is completely alien to me to deal with their rejection and I worry about how they will cope in the future once the safety net is removed.

I don't really expect my sister to put up with them. There was an occasion after our stay when we visited, it was getting dark and she actually offered to put us up for the night. SN child attends SN clubs and activities but as I said, they are really no problem at school or when attending those types of activities. They are rude sometimes but not physically robust enough to make others feel threatened.

[givemestrengthorlove]

So what's the real problem then OP? What do you want to happen now?
How old are they?

[motheroflight]

Thanks defineme - the idea about going away in a group of families is great - my DCs love camping and so do one of their cousins so it may work.
I could have posted this in SN but I chose to post it here as I wanted the NT perspective on the matter. I am dismayed that people cannot understand that you can try as hard as you can to teach the social rules to children with behavioral issues but you could still fail abysmally BUT this is not necessarily because you are a crap parent. Maybe I see my sister as being more culpable than a random class parent because she is my sister and these are the only children in the family so I had high hopes even though these may now seem unrealistic in themselves.

[Cravey]

How do you know what makes others feel threatened ? You say you it's alien to you yet in other posts state it happens all the time and has been for a while. Make your mind up. At the end of the day is other kids won't play with yours then there is maybe a reason. If I was a child I wouldn't play with someone who broke my toys. Your children and you need to learn boundaries and behaviour control. Special needs or not. It's not down to your sister to correct things. It's up to you. Sop being self entitled and do something about it.

[defineme]

motheroflight I have to say I have better experiences socializinjg wit the parents of kids from sn groups-have you tried that?

i would move to the sn board, I think you're getting an unfair flaming when you're in a sad situation.

[Cravey]

And stop harping on about the special needs thing. Yes we know it can be hard. But you can still control your child and supervise them so they aren't breaking stuff that belongs to others.

[gobbynorthernbird]

You seem to be very all or nothing about this. There is a middle ground to the relationship with your sister.

And as far as parenting skills go, why do you think your kids behave sometimes and not at others? It's not as if they don't ever behave well. They can when it suits them.

[insanityscratching]

I think you just have to let go of the idea that your dc and their cousins are close although they may be in the future when they have all grown up. We can't choose our children's friendships and even blood relatives don't have to like each other.
I understand you feeling sad that your dc don't have what you want for them, you can help them a little with that by perhaps hosting playdates at your house and keeping on top of their behaviour when their friends are around so that they are happy to return.
I think the rudeness needs addressing if that is what makes children not want to be friends or their parents not want them about. I think maybe you need to stop seeing your ability to control them as being enough, you need to instill in them behaviours and manners that are present in all instances and when you aren't there so that you feel less afraid of when you aren't there and your dc are seen as an attractive proposition for friendships and relationships.

[waltermittymissus]

I still have no idea about what exactly you want from your sister, I'm afraid.

And, in the nicest possible way, if nobody wants your dc around maybe it's time to start really looking at their behaviour and figuring out what's going wrong.

FWIW I do feel very sad for you and them. But the situation won't improve by expecting other people to change IYSWIM.

[PresidentServalan]

YABU - it's none of your business who your relatives have in their house.

[GrendelsMum]

I get t impression that the children are different ages - is that right?

If so, I think that it is hard to get real friendships between cousins when they're children and in their teens. I get on very well with my cousins now were adults, but even three years was enough of an age difference when we were young that they weren't friends to me then.

[defineme]

So Cravey do you see yourself as being wise enough and perfect enough to deliver the op some kind of cold hard reality shock?
Or are you just getting a kick out of being unpleasant?

Your advice is pretty bloody useless too.

Her dc are fine at home and group activities.
They weren't at her sisters when they'd experienced a recent trauma

So how exactly do you supervise a child when they're at someone's house and you're in your own?
Yes I know ...you've trained them at home to behave, but op's kids do at home...the mind fuck of new situations when you have sn means you may well have extreme reactions, but if people can have the insight to see that, it usually gets better little by little ,visit by visit.

I'm sure you have experience of sn Cravey -the patronizing tone of your posts suggests that, but there's a distinct lack of empathy or indeed any heart...how can you really not imagine that life is not always as you have experienced it?

[defineme]

Having read subsequent responses I think you need to leave this thread motheroflight , there is an astounding ignorance of other people's realities on this thread.

[Cravey]

Define me. I'm telling the truth that's all. My advice may be useless to you and the op but I damn well bet her sister would appreciate it. Oh and go be rude to someone else. Plenty of other comments on this thread the same as mine. And don't you dare surmise what I do and don't have experience of. You know nothing of me or mine. I know plenty from reading this thread. The op thinks her sister should give into what she wants. IMO. Now be a dear and go surmise on someone else's life. There a love.

[Cravey]

Also while I'm having a rant my twins lived through a huge trauma age 11. One which not a lot of children have to see, however they certainly didn't go around breaking toys and being rude to people afterwards.

[motheroflight]

Thanks defineme - I think that some NT people such as Cravey have a rigid view of what is the acceptable face of Sn - the type in whose name / condition it is worth running marathons and raising money for, the type you see on Something Special. In all honesty, even those running SN groups obviously favour the good humoured, uncomplicated, giggly SN kid.
They do not understand that there are Sn children who behave negatively because of their issues, not because of their parenting and I think it makes them feel uncomfortable to confront the fact that they would find them intolerable and unloveable if they were in my position.

[motheroflight]

FWIW, My child who was breaking toys was three/four at the time, not eleven

[gobbynorthernbird]

MOF, but they don't always behave negatively. Why do you think that is?