To request that DD's teacher stops trying to force a friendship with this girl?

[madamevastra29]

It's a tricky one, I'm not happy with the situation but I don't want to come across the wrong way less than a week in. DD has just gone into year4 in what isn't a brilliant class environment IMO, the school reshuffled the classes for this year and DD has ended up in a very boy heavy class with a newly qualified teacher new to the school this year. DD is luckily with a couple of her friends from her year 3 class, as there is a very limited friendship pool of girls.

There's one girl in the class (I'll call her Daisy) who came to the school last term, in a different class. This girl has struggled to settle in from what I can gather and the year 4 teacher has told DD she has to be her "companion" and look after her at playtime and lunchtime. She is also sitting next to her for most of the day. Perfectly fine. DD, however, isn't happy with this arrangement, she says she wants to please her teacher and look after Daisy, but she wants to have either playtime or lunchtime each day to play just her best friend and her as they normally do, and not always babysitting. She was told off by her teacher today because she left Daisy by herself at lunch- while I can see where the teacher is coming from, I don't think DD should be punished for wanting to play with her best friend.

I'm concerned as the fact DD has been put next to this girl shows the teacher has not put the class on ability grouped tables, DD is very bright and when she finishes work early is asked to help Daisy and other girls on the table. We are aiming for DD to go to a selective independent for secondary, and need her to be stretched if she's going to be on track. I know from one of the other mums who works at the school as a teaching assistant that this girl has a lot of issues, I've yet to find her mum in the playground though so haven't had the chance to get to know her. I'm perfectly happy for DD to be friendly, but given DD is perfectly happy in her existing friendships and doesn't want to be lumbered with this girl 24/7, I don't want DD to be paired up with her more and more by the teacher. AIBU to voice my concerns to DD's teacher?

How else should a teacher with very few girls in the class help a new girl (who clearly is struggling to be assimilated) fit in?

As someone who moved schools a horrendous amount and was bullied mercilessly as a result, I'd like to know what other tactics there should be. Or is it just about sucking it up?

I do share it among my entire class Crumbled. I'm constantly shuffling groups around. Sometimes Bob helps Mary with maths, sometimes Mary helps Johnny with reading, sometimes Johnny helps Bob with science. A collaborative learning environment. EVERY student has something to offer in a classroom. Neat rows of students reciting times tables doesn't exist in modern classrooms anymore. Students are constantly learning from the teacher, each other, parents, and contact with students in other schools and around the world through online media.

And when I ask a student to explain something to another student, I'm usually hanging around in earshot so I can determine the understanding of the student doing the explaining. It's how I can identify where I need to take that students learning next. And quite often, that student ends up learning something from the student that they are "teaching".

I do share it among my entire class Crumbled. I'm constantly shuffling groups around. Sometimes Bob helps Mary with maths, sometimes Mary helps Johnny with reading, sometimes Johnny helps Bob with science. A collaborative learning environment. EVERY student has something to offer in a classroom. Neat rows of students reciting times tables doesn't exist in modern classrooms anymore. Students are constantly learning from the teacher, each other, parents, and contact with students in other schools and around the world through online media.

And when I ask a student to explain something to another student, I'm usually hanging around in earshot so I can determine the understanding of the student doing the explaining. It's how I can identify where I need to take that students learning next. And quite often, that student ends up learning something from the student that they are "teaching".

Another way to look at it is that the teacher/school may be concerned that your DD and her best friend are too close...and this is the ideal opportunity to foster some independence in your DD...whilst also helping out a new girl...
As for TA -I don't need to say it - do I?
And for helping children less able - as said up thread is a fantastic way of ensuring the brighter child understands the work - you can't explain how to do something unless you really fully understand it..and it will help your DD become a fully rounded individual...
Speak to the school if you are so concerned but be very aware that children's versions of events may not be the reality...
My DD1 around 6 told us a boy at school had been teasing her ...made her cry...told her she was the odd one out because her skin was brown. (My DD is mixed race -the only non-white child in her class). We questioned DD some more - this happened after the art teacher had said she needed to use more brown colour for her skin tone in her self portrait...she had to stand up in front of the class
Thankfully I (rather than my furious DP) phoned the school - and asked what had happened (rather than accused)...within 20 minutes HT phoned back to explain...when the art teacher was explaining the self portraits my DD had put her hand up and said she was special - she had brown skin - the art teacher had suggested she used more brown and they had all stood up one by one to talk about hair/eye colour etc... Boy had been teasing her she wasn't special but the odd one out...Boys parents were spoken to but not as a racist incident ....
All was fine, handled fantastically -not sure it would have been if DP had done what he was threatening to and march into the school to give them a piece of his mind...

LEM - it sounds like it helps your child. That's a good thing. There is no evidence that the OPs chld does not understand her work. There is no indication that the teacher is observing the OPs child to assess her understanding as she imparts her supposedly faulty knowledge. If the OPs child does not understand her work she should not be teaching another child without supervision.

Midnite: I'll say goodnight without any ill will but I find your posts rather depressing.

Fairenuff - Midnitescribbler, a teacher, assumes it is part of her academic education. You say it isn't

No, I said it is part of her social, emotional, spiritual and personal education which runs alongside her academic education. These are not separate 'subjects' they are part of everyday school life. The same way as you can teach maths through art, or numeracy through IT.

The teacher will be observing all the children, it's part of the role.

Sorry this is getting even more depressing. Goodnight all

Are you deliberately mis reading my posts crumbled?

bit of a sad thread to be honest.

I brought up my 4 to actively help out those who looked sad or not playing at school especially if the child was new to the school.

teaching children to develop empathy and inclusion is just as important as striving for academic success.

Yes, exactly thebody. Selective independent for secondary or not!

How is it depressing that more able kids help the less able Crumbled?

I have the "bright" just gone into year 4 daughter.

I've encouraged to her to make as many friends as possible, she doesn't have one best friend. One of her best friends is a new to a school in year 3 girl with a lot of baggage.

Being a rounded individual, with a variety of friends is an important skill. Maybe the teacher is onto something to encourage your DD to widen her circle of friends with people that neither you nor her may not think of.

Yes, LEM, I think crumbled is deliberately misreading your posts.

Not much point engaging.

OP probably needs to discuss the situation with the teacher, rather than on the internet, where even those of us who are relatively well-informed about peer support don't actually know the specifics of the situation, beyond OP's interpretation of her 8yo dd's interpretation of the classroom dynamics - she needs to discuss it with the person who's actually dealing with both girls on a day-to-day basis in the classroom.

I would have thought that if there are only a few girls in the class, who weren't all in the same class last year, having them play as a group would be more sensible. Even if that means having an adult there for a couple of weeks to guide it.

The only way what the teacher has done makes sense to me is if they're deliberately splitting the OP's DD and her friend to force them to make friends with others.

I think YABU

When I was younger and to this day i still am a bit like Daisy.

I started school in yr 4 half way through the school year. Because of girl class mates where somehow forced to be friends with me and play with me. And they made it obvious that they had other things they wanted to be doing at break times and that meant not spending it with me. I was also struggling a lot with the class work.

I'm not sure what I'm saying here really. Just that I sympathise a lot with Daisy.

I think YABU

When I was younger and to this day i still am a bit like Daisy.

I started school in yr 4 half way through the school year. Because of girl class mates where somehow forced to be friends with me and play with me. And they made it obvious that they had other things they wanted to be doing at break times and that meant not spending it with me. I was also struggling a lot with the class work.

I'm not sure what I'm saying here really. Just that I sympathise a lot with Daisy.

Helping other children is a good thing, I believe. Helping someone to make friends and integrate is a good thing - but it does sound as if an awful lot of pressure is being put on the OP's dd - when does she get a break during the day?

To be honest, even just a week of this sounds like pretty hard work - doing her own school work, helping others with their work and then being solely responsible for Daisy all of break time and lunchtime.

midnite I think that is quite a stretch to say you think the Op's dd has shown signs of bullying - to me that sounds like you are just trying to be hurtful. It is more likely that Op's dd is one that has been identified as mature and kind. (Not a teacher but that is who I would buddy up a vulnerable girl with - not someone I thought was a bully!)

Re: class work. I think leave alone - you are only in the first week. See what happens over the next few weeks.

However the social aspect is far more important. I think you need to talk to the teacher about how far your dd's obligation goes here. What if Op's dd and all her friends want to play {tries to remember being 8} Raleigh and Daisy hates Raleigh - is Op's dd not allowed to play?

I don't like the sound of the daughter being told off for not including her all the time - that makes her a burden - not a possible new friend.

Generally in cases like this I try to think what would I find appropriate as an adult. If a new, much younger or less experienced, member of staff joined my team then I would make sure they knew what they were doing at work and if I was going for a sandwich in the canteen downstairs them I would ask them if they wanted to come too. However, if they wanted lunch at 2 while I was starving at 12 then I don't think I would feel obliged to wait 2 hours before I ate. Additionally, if I needed to nip to the shops or phone my dh or talk to a friend of mine about something important to me then I don't think I would feel I shouldn't because I was supposed to be looking after new colleague.

I had to help other kids at primary. I hated it, and don't think I learned much from it, although I did end up being a teacher for a while as an adult. It felt like I was both doing the job of the teacher and that the teacher was not doing her job in teaching me. And I got lines for talking when I was teaching someone how to multiply fractions because she'd told me to. All in all it was a pretty raw deal.

It's unfair to stipulate who your DD has to spend all her time with. I can see that it is beneficial to 'Daisy' but a group would be better - and presumably there are other girls around at breaks anyway. Not that I'm sure why it has to be a girl.

So why are Daisy DD and best friend not playing together?, I highly doubt the teacher has said DD is only allowed to play with Daisy and nobody else. The only rational explanations I can see is that

1. They haven't thought to ask Daisy
2. Best friend doesn't want to play with Daisy, (in which case someone needs to have a word)
3. DD and best friend can't bear the thought of asking Daisy to join in for a couple of weeks.

1 and 2 are easily solved, and if the answer is 3 than if it was my DD then I'd be pretty damn disappointed in her attitude!

HattyJack - absolutely agree. This was me too - always made to help out other children but never being stretched myself. Things were different 25 years ago but I wouldn't want the same for my DD. There really is a difference between a one off and being the crutch for a lazy and ineffective teacher who can't/won't differentiate between ability levels (not saying that's what has happened here).

OP - YANBU with regard to your daughter being forced to be friends. The teacher should not have told her off.

Fucking hell that TA needs her arse handed to her.

If a staff member at my DS's school did what she has done I would hit the roof and be calling for her head on a plate, how unprofessional. You keep your mouth shut.

YABU, it has only been a week, give it a bit of time and it will settle down as Daisy settles in.

UK Year 4 is what? 8 years old? Chill the fuck out.

I agree with Lesta, it may be that DD is playing exclusively with her best friend and with girls that can be an issue in the future, they might have a fall out and also because they don't interact enough with the rest of the class, affecting the whole atmosphere. The teacher is perhaps trying to ensure DD's emotional development in that she should interact with all the kids in an appropriate way.
I am a teacher, in another country but at an all-girls school. We change seating plans regularly, within subjects, within home-rooms, and we re-form each home-room at the start of each year so there is a balance in ability and behaviors. We have kids with special needs and they aren't always communicated to us when kids start in the first year so we need to accommodate that socially as well as meeting them academically.
DD may be feeling the pressure of OP's academic aspirations, especially if she's being quizzed every evening about what she has been doing during the day. It is a get-out clause for her if there is a possibility of blaming the teacher or other kids for not progressing academically in a way that her mother expects.
Daisy may in fact have learned different things at her previous school and may also be bright academically, but needing time to adjust. The teacher would know this from records, but not necessarily TA. Maybe she will overtake DD at a later stage.
Mothers sometimes thing that their average child is exceptionally bright based on e.g. spelling tests, forgetting how much extra academic input their child gets at home compared to other kids.
I think OP would do well to leave things in the hands of the school, but as others have said, encourage her daughter to cooperate as much as possible, for her own emotional development. She might need help from Daisy at a later stage.
Oh, and TA may just have said something like, we need to give Daisy as much support as we can to fit in socially and build relationships.
Apologies for long post.

Dont mention the academic angle and the TA's comments. You have a case for asking the school not to burden your daughter socially, if you must. But it would be simpler and more effective to encourage your daughter to find strategies to manage this situation herself.