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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

was i right to tell my ds not to apologise to this woman??

578 replies

mummyjs · 09/09/2013 21:22

my ds (4) and i were in the chemist waiting for a prescription.
my ds was stood by the door pressing the button to open it for people to come in and out and smiling at them and chatting away, people were saying than you and he was smiling and saying your welcome ect.
Anyway this older lady came in and he opened the door for him and she gave him a horrible look and barged past him. He said to her 'its nice to say thank you', which is something i drill into him so i suppose its my fault in a way. anyway she shouted at him 'how dare you speak to a adult that way' and then told me that i should control him and make him say sorry to her.
I have to admit my back was put up by the nasty tone in her voice and told her that i would not tell him to apologise, he was right, its rude not to say thank you and that a woman of her age should not need a lesson in manners from a 4 year old.
anyway she barged back out saying something along the lines of parents who dont control their kids ect.
was i being unreasonable? if he had of said anything rude to her then of course i would have made him say sorry, but i honestly dont think he was the rude one in this??

OP posts:
SilverStreak7 · 10/09/2013 12:39

YABU in my opinion . . As others have stated not everybody likes children and even if they did why should they be obliged to Thank your DS anyway ? And why was he playing with the exit button in the Chemist ? Perhaps the lady felt very ill, , it being a Chemist and all.

I personally would have Thanked him . . I am a believer also in if a little child smiles at you , you smile back but as I said, not everybody is like that .

PartyOrganisor · 10/09/2013 12:43

Well according to these last posts, I will stop holding doors for people (they can do it themselves) and I will also stop saying thank you as it is not warrant (why on earth would you want to do that to someone who is trying to be nice to you?)

I am sure my life will be much happier after these changes.

PartyOrganisor · 10/09/2013 12:45

Bell if he had being playing he would have being opening the door just for the sake of it. Not opening it when someone came through.
He was actually playing at being nice to people by opening the door to them (he could quite easily have hold the door if the door hadn't been electric).
Not quite the same?

PartyOrganisor · 10/09/2013 12:48

And oh yes.
I don't like old people and disabled people. Does it mean I don't have to make any effort for them too?? Just like it would be OK not to make an effort for children because you don't like them?

It's getting better and better. Soon I won't have to take care of anybody at all but me. Great !!

SilverStreak7 · 10/09/2013 12:59

50 over the Hill now then ? ? Oh dear. best start booking blue rinses and buying a shawl soon then !

addictedtofarmville · 10/09/2013 13:05

I've read through most of this thread and changed my opinion several times during it, but here are the things that stand out to me the most:

Firstly, as the mum of a 4 year old boy who is also sometimes a little vocal with his opinions, I would have said 'there's no need for that, the lady probably didn't realise you opened the door for her' or something like that as soon as he said it. I do teach my children to stick up for themselves and not be walked over, but I'm a firm believer in picking battles, and battles with people in shops are just something I wouldn't encourage. It doesn't hurt kids to learn that not everyone shares their values, manners etc.

Secondly, I wouldn't have allowed my son to play with the door. As others have pointed out we all think our children are cute and brilliant and funny, but other people often don't see them that way, they are seen as just another child. Also I think it's a good idea to teach children they can't just play with anything and everything. The door is a functional thing, not a toy.

Thirdly, the lady was rude, but equally I think your son was a bit cheeky too. As others have said she may have had bad news, or have been unwell, or have been having a really awful day, and a lecture on manners from someone was probably the last thing she needed. Chances are she didn't realise someone had opened the door for her and was taken aback. It may have also riled her a little that you didn't correct your son when he said that to her. Lots of people get annoyed if they feel a child is rude to them and the parent just stands there smiling adoringly.

WestieMamma · 10/09/2013 13:14

I don't get it. If he were going through the door and held it open for her as she was also coming through, yes she would be rude not to thank him for doing it. But he was entertaining himself by playing/messing about with the door mechanism. Why should anyone have to thank him for that. Confused

Original poster
mummyjs · 10/09/2013 13:18

ive already agreed that he was rude to say it, he was told that its not nice to comment on anyones manners regardless of age... all of which i could have told him at the time if the lady had not been shouting at him.

he really did not at the time understand the concept that what he was saying was rude, the only thing at 4 that he does not is that his mum and dad tell him that it is nice to say thank you so he was parroting it back.

and yes i agree that i was overly rude to her, she may well have been having a terrible day or been unwell which is why she was in the chemist, the same reason i was there.

thanks for all the different opinions on this, 3 wrongs dont make a right, but think that myself and this lady could of dealt with it better

OP posts:
Floggingmolly · 10/09/2013 13:21

God, all this 'opening the door was such a nice thing for him to do' Hmm

  1. He wasn't doing it to be nice, he was arsing about playing with something he shouldn't, and
  2. He pressed a button, not laid his coat over a fucking puddle; she very likely didn't even realise he'd done it - lots of automatic doors are completely hands off and respond to a sensor you set off before you even get right up to the door. I bet she thought this was one of them.
woollyideas · 10/09/2013 13:22

So many things on this thread have wound me up: the 'older woman' comment and references to old witches etc., the exaggeration, as in 'she was shouting and bawling at him', the OP's expectation that everyone should be charmed by her child's game...

OP, it sounds like you were the rudest of all of them!

Gruntfuttock · 10/09/2013 13:23

If the door opened as she approached it, she would have assumed it was an automatic door. Anyone would. Even if you'd been there before and had to open the door manually before, you'd just assume that an automatic one had been installed. Therefore a child telling you that you should have said thank you would have been startling, irritating and confusing all at once. I'm not surprised she acted badly, especially if she had emotional or physical problems at the time.

CeliaLytton · 10/09/2013 13:25

Some days I pop into the chemist for shampoo or some other non essential. The sun is shining, DCs have been cheerful and well behaved, I have had enough sleep. You know the kind of day? Well on that day, I would have been delighted to have the door held open for me and exchange a few words with your son. I would have thanked him and complimented him on his manners.

On another day I might be going in after having a mc to get painkillers and pads. I might have screaming DC with me, my nerves are shot to pieces, it is pissing rain and I have to wait for a 4yo to deign to open the door and them am expected to chat politely to him.

Can you see how it could go either way?

Your son was NBU to think a thank you would have been nice, but he was unreasonable to say so, it is a learning curve and he has now learnt.

The woman was BU to not say thank you all things being equal,but at the same time if for any reason she didn't want to engage with your son, that is fine too and she should have been left in peace.

Maybe teach your son that most people love well mannered children, but if for any season someone does not seem to want to talk to him or smile at him, they should be left alone. Everyone wins.

I sympathise with one aspect though, the line between too young to know better and precocious is a fine one and it is a steep learning curve for children to get over saying what they think!

CeliaLytton · 10/09/2013 13:27

To answer your question, YWBU. You could easily have had your DS apologise for saying that to the woman by explaining it is not the done thing, no matter how bad you thought her manners where because it is your job to teach your DS manners and socialising, not to teach her.

DropYourSword · 10/09/2013 13:30

I'll admit I haven't rtf(whole)t on this one, but this site astounds me sometimes! 3 year old kicks a man who shouts at her, he is in the wrong. 4 year old opens door for woman who then shouts at him, he is in the wrong?!

The world's a crazy place!!

Gruntfuttock · 10/09/2013 13:31

Celia Lytton "I would have been delighted to have the door held open for me and exchange a few words with your son. I would have thanked him and complimented him on his manners."

He didn't hold the door open though. He was a metre from the door, pressing a button. That's completely different. The "ancient crone" of 50-odd would, of course, have been rude not to thank anyone jolding the door open for her, but that's not what happened. As far as she was aware, the door opened automatically, hence her being taken aback by what the boy inside said to her and reacting badly.

Floggingmolly · 10/09/2013 13:32

Just one more thing regarding your thread title - there's a huge difference between not telling your ds to apologise, and telling him not to apologise. Both would have been rude in this situation; but the second spectacularly more so.

Which was it?

littlemisswise · 10/09/2013 13:37

He didn't hold the frigging door open.

He was opening the door to keep himself amused while his mother talked to the chemist about her medicine, not because he was being helpful.

People are saying he was wrong because he was rude and commented on the woman's manners, not because he opened the door!

bottleofbeer · 10/09/2013 13:37

Can you honestly say you wouldn't be pissed off at someone shouting at your child when in their four year old innocence they thought they were helping and being proud of their manners?

Of course you would. It's instinctive. You don't sit off and weigh up the pros and cons before getting your handy white board out and writing down a list of reasons she might be in a shit mood. It's just as likely she wasn't in agonising pain or that her husband hadn't just died, or she'd just found out she needs her left leg amputating. She could have been going in for a can of deodorant or tache wax.

Admit it, even if your child deserved a telling off, you'd bristle at another adult doing it.

Floggingmolly · 10/09/2013 13:41

So she should have done it herself, bottleofbeer, instead of mouthing off at the woman who probably thought she'd entered a parallel universe at the point.

If it happened to me; I'd assume I'd blundered into a filming of Candid Camera.

bottleofbeer · 10/09/2013 13:42

Maybe it was Vagisil and she'd simply had enough of irritating feminine itching.

That'd explain her mardiness

PresidentServalan · 10/09/2013 13:42

I am truly amazed at how many people think it is perfectly acceptable for a child to correct an adult! However I now have a better understanding of why many children are so bloody rude.

littlemisswise · 10/09/2013 13:43

My four year old wouldn't have been arsing about with the door. My four year old would have been stood next to me while I talked about my medicine.

Had my four year old dared to be so rude the woman would not have needed to have shouted because I would have told them off first, got them to apologise and apologised profusely to her!

bottleofbeer · 10/09/2013 13:45

Yes that's what she should have done, in the ideal world.

But in reality she saw a woman nastily shout at her son for a very minor infraction. I know that'd piss me off way more than my son being inadvertently cheeky.

I'd have flared my nostrils at her.

BangOn · 10/09/2013 13:46

Bless him, what a sour old puss she sounds! Neither you, nor he, did anything wrong. Those of you calling the OP's son a 'cheeky git' have a very odd way of referring to preschool children.

BangOn · 10/09/2013 13:49

littlemisswise what a wonderfully regimented life your dcs must lead! Have a [biscuit. & a valium.

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