to be really angry with MIL

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OK, so a bit of background... we do not speak to SIL. We have very good reasons for not doing so. She caused a lot of trouble and hurt in my marriage and we were left with no choice but to cut her out. I don't want to rake it all up here, suffice to say the Mumsnet Jury agreed that we should cut her out as she was behaving like DH's wife and treating me as the OW.

We have given her ample opportunity to make amends over the years. All we have ever asked is that she apologises and we all move on. But she refuses to do so. In the time that we have not seen her, she has had a baby. Our DC know about the baby, but we never talk about SIL and the baby because we think they are too young to understand why we don't see them.

MIL came to stay with us recently. Last time she came, she spent the entire time (about 3 days) banging on to the DC about the baby and about SIL. After she left, DH called and had very strong words with her. He told her not to talk to the DC about SIL and the baby, that we would explain everything to them ourselves in good time.

So this time, she stayed a few days and - apart from not saying one word to me the whole time she was here, she spent all her time in the DC's bedroom. It turns out - again - she spent almost the entire time talking to them about SIL and the baby and showing them photos. I am furious. I feel she has completely undermined us. She was told in no uncertain terms not to talk to the DC about SIL and the baby, yet she did. I am livid.

AIBU?

Thanks for reading.

Greetings - I think I remember your other threads.

Whether your MIL likes it or not, this is the route you and your DH have chosen. You have your reasons for this and it's not up to her to try and 'fix' a situation (for want of a better word) that you don't actually feel needs fixing. The level of bad behaviour in the past was enough to warrant you and DH cutting contact and that should be enough for her. It no doubt does make her and FIL sad, it would me too, but she'd do well to remember that just because someone is family, doesn't mean they're always well behaved or well intentioned. Bad behaviour has consequences.

Two things strike me here - she was just downright rude not speaking to you in your own home. Shy? I don't think so. She wouldn't be welcome again if that were me. Secondly, repeatedly ignoring your wishes as parents is wrong too. She may not agree with your decision to go no contact but that's her issue, not yours. She should not be using your children as pawns in her ridiculous little game.

I wouldn't let the children see her again for a while - or if you do meet, meet somewhere neutral and make it very clear that the cousins are not to be discussed. They're your children and you have the right to decide who you want them to be around, not her.

EST0106, when SIL was in our lives she caused so much damage to our family. Poor DS1 grew up with DH and I arguing constantly about her. In fact, every argument we had was about her. We have been so happy since we cut her out, our family dynamic is completely different. I am determined that DS2 will not grow up in the same battleground as DS1.

It's nothing personal, by the way. She behaved in exactly the same way to DH's previous fiancee.

From what you have posted it doesn't sound to me like you are bu. I read it as you don't want to talk about sil to the DC as you don't want them to be upset and that you will explain to them when they are older. It didn't seem to me like you we're just trying to deny her existence etc, just that the things MIL has said in the past have lead to the children becoming upset.

Mil should have respected yours and dhs wishes, and I agree she is being manipulative and trying to use the children to get what she wants.

I don't know the reasons for you not speaking to sil but if you have tried to deal with things previously to no avail like you have said then you are right to go no contact. You have already stated that you would be willing to move on from this if she apologises - again without knowing all the back story I don't know what she has done but to take you on what you have posted that doesn't seem unreasonable.

I agree that you shouldn't be excluded from the family. From your posts it seems like the issue isn't just a clash of personalities and that sil "doesn't like you" but that she has actively done quite a lot of things which have negatively impacted your family.

Yes it must be very sad for the pil but they still have a relationship with you both and should be focusing on making that as positive as possible instead of trying to manipulate you through your children.

What does your DH think about it? Have you spoken to mil about a) her actions recently and b) calmly about how you feel regarding the situation with sil?

I don't know the background but I don't agree that you have to get along or make any effort with SIL if you don't want to.

Explain to dcs that you don't get on with dsil therefore you won't be meeting up anytime soon. Never mind all this bollocks about ooh they have a right to meet their cousin etc. FFS I am sure they can live quite happily without meeting these people.

As for dmil you can't control what she talks about when she comes to stay. You probably need to have another word explaining that you believe she is trying to force your hand but it won't work, so stop it. She can talk about the baby a bit obvs it is only natural but she mustn't cross the line. I'd give her one more chance and then tell her she can't come to stay again if she does it again.

And you can ask dmil to pass on dc's thanks for the presents, nothing more required.

Stick to your guns OP, it is your house and your dcs so you decide what is best.

I'm really not suggesting that you invite her round for tea and say everything's alright now cos its clearly not. But, I do think that you are putting your mil in a difficult situation and that it's ok for your children to acknowledge/write to (if old enough) and occasionally see SIL and her child. Surely you could cope with that, I wouldn't expect you or DH to take them and maybe not mil if she is not to be trusted, but another family member perhaps. Lots of people on here have talked about how damaging it was growing up in a family where a sibling was cut off and not talked about and I'm not sure the message it sends to your children about dealing with relationships is a positive one.

I guess the other alternative is that SIL recognises that her behaviour was unacceptable and promises to stop all the nastiness? Why should we have to tolerate it?

But she's unreasonable and you're not from what you say, so nothing will change unless you be the bigger person. But you seem happy with things how they are so I suspect that nothing will change and you'll just have to block contact with mil as well as she isn't likely to listen to your request when she hasn't so far. I don't see that this has a happy ending, maybe it does for you but not for your pil and maybe not your DH and children. I hope I'm wrong.

How old are your children OP?

I've seen a few people ask, but not seen an answer?

Apologies if I've missed it.

What is to be achieved from receiving a forced apology that you know she doesn't mean?

YANBU to be really angry that MIL is trying to undermine you again.
YAB a bit U to expect her to not talk about her other grandchild though - although from what you've said she took it to extremes.

YANBU to not want SIL in your life any more, and YANBU to expect that you should be seen to be a part of your DH's family, as you are, and not just some inconvenient hanger-on who can be ignored and discarded at will. You do not want your DC to be exposed to this woman (I vaguely remember your previous stuff about her and she was worryingly toxic) and there is no reason that they should be.

IF at some point in the future, your MIL wants all her grandchildren to know each other, then she might be able to have them all over to her house - but you would have to go too, to ensure there was no continuing abuse of you behind your back.

Your MIL's rudeness to you is unacceptable, especially in your own home. I would not have her back to stay unless she can at least behave with civility towards you.

If you, your DH and your children are happier without SIL in your lives, then you should keep it that way. Your MIL might not like it but she's not the one who had to put up with all the shit that you did - so she will have to accept the situation for what it is and if she can't then she is going to end up missing out as well. FWIW, your SIL is never going to apologise - if she was, she would have done it by now.

I hear a lot about what's good for the children - but being exposed to toxic relatives is NOT good for them, regardless. They have a "right" to know they have a cousin - they don't have to know that cousin, and especially not if it brings them in contact with said cousin's mother who has behaved foully to their own mother.

I've tried to be the 'bigger person' many times. Forgive and forget. Until the next time she does something underhand and nasty. I have forgiven her so many times, I can't even remember how many times. There are only so many times you can turn the other cheek before you realise you need to put your little family first, which is what we have done.

DC are primary school age.

ILetHimKeep20Quid

Why should the OP allow a disruptive influence in to her and her children's lives?

Why should the OP have to put up with being harassed and bullied?

Why should the OP miss out time with her family so that someone who doesn't like her and causes her hurt can?

Adding to Boney's list:

Why should the OP allow DH's family to pretend she doesn't exist by not being involved in any of their family stuff?

Great post, Thumbwitch, thank you. I think I have B a bit U. There is nothing wrong with MIL talking to the DC about their cousin, I just don't want it to be a constant barrage. And the fact that she blatantly undermines us makes me furious.

I think I remember earlier posts - wasn't there a whole load of stuff which included her making Drs appointments for your DH and not telling you? If that's you, then no you are not being unreasonable. You told your MIL you didn't want her to do X, she did it anyway, you gave her a second chance and she did it again, deliberately undermining you.

I don't know what to do about it now though. I guess only allow supervised visits or non at all which is sad, but your family comes before extended family. They've almost destroyed your marriage once, don't let them do it again.

OP, you are missing my point, I'm not saying you need to forgive and forget and allow her back into your life. I have no idea what she has done but you obviously feel it is serious enough to warrant your decision. What I am saying is that by allowing conversations about her and her child in front of your children and recognition of that child, by your children not you personally, might make things a bit easier all round and remove the mystic that your children might feel about this person we're not allowed to talk about. At primary school age they could send a little card or something to their cousin, if they want to without you really having to be involved.

sorry am not familiar with your other thread. I love my sils but see them on average maybe 3 times a year as we all have families and busy lives.

why are you seemingly either in each others pockets or never seeing her ever again.

I just can't see how she can have so much contact or influence on your lives as she seems to have had.

I feel sorry for your mil/fil here as it would break my heart if any if my 4 children fell out like this. of course she talks about her own daughter and grand child. you can't control that.

personally for me life's too short. you are making this into a huge huge deal now when surely it could be resolved in a once a year present giving around Christmas time, cousins see each other and then all go back to your own lives for the rest of the 364 days.

your children will probably get their cousins on face book in the next few years anyway especially as the not seeing them will make them more curious. you won't be able to stop this really without looking a bit mad to them.

how on earth can you restarting once a year or very minimal contact threaten your whole marriage?

No, I'm not missing your point, I do agree with you. However, I think any kind of communication at this stage between DC and SIL/DCousin is too risky.

I can't put myself and my family through that again, I just can't

Through what? What's at risk by allowing your husband to take the kids to the in laws and meet with their aunt and cousin for a couple of hours every so often? You don't need to be there.

Lot of naivety in some replies I think. If SIL was deeply nasty and undermining the marriage, of course you shouldn't see her, and nor should your children.

DH is NC with his sister. Equally justified. We let PIL talk about her though, as you can't be censoring others.

well unless she's a mad axe murderer surely once/ twice a year contact can't do real harm can it?

I am so sorry I just can't see how a sil could undermine a marriage unless incest was involved. I am not making light if this by the way I seriously don't understand.

I'm sure the OP doesn't want to drag all the details up again just to help you understand, thebody - but the SIL was heavily over-involved in the OP's DH's life, and resented the OP being part of it so did everything she could to push the OP out, behaving as though SHE were the scorned woman. Very possessive of her brother. Doesn't need sex to interfere.