To not let this boy in my garden?

[strokey]

We live on a really nice estate with a green area just outside our house.

We have a large back garden with playground toys and other children often come into the garden to play with my children, there can be up to fifteen of them at one time

Last week there was an older boy that I didn't recognise who kept spitting (on the ground, not at the other children) I told him to stop, then I saw him doing it again and told him that he would have to go if he did it again, and that it was disgusting. So he does it again, and I told him to go. He called me a fat cunt (not too offensive Im a size 8)

The next day more children come around bit by bit. I kept the back gate locked so they had to knock on the door to come through the house. When this boy turned up again I said he couldn't come in because he was rude.

Most of them are around 5-6-7-8 (mine are 5 and 8) this boy is about 11, the other kids his age don't come in the garden, they stay out with their bikes and are allowed further away then just the green area outside.

Bit later a woman comes round, says she is his mum and he is really upset that hes being left out of the water fight. I explained why, and also said that it was only primary school kids in the garden, none of the older kids come in, and the boys of his age were still outside the communal area.
She said he has got ADHD or ASD (I dont know which) and prefers being with the little ones. I was going to say no sorry, he isn't coming in after that language, but as soon as she mentioned the special needs bit I got worried and caved and said he could come in. She said thanks and that it was horrible to see your child being left out and went off. I think its horrible to be called a cunt in your own garden by someone elses child, but I was too much of a wuss to say so.

By that point the kids were getting over excited with the water sprinkler and the garden was waterlogged, so I took the guns away and turned off the sprinkler. As I was putting it in the garage he followed me and grabbed one end of the hose and wouldn't let go cos he said he hadn't had a turn, I got it from him and rolled it up and put it away, by the time I got back to the garden he had the garden tap on and was flinging buckets of water around. I turned the tap off and he goes over to the sand and starts throwing it manically. He wasn't shouting but was totally out of control and carried on throwing the sand even though I kept saying stop.

I didn't want to chuck just him out so I said they all had to go home now. Yesterday we were out all day, but today they are back here. The boy hasn't turned up yet, but Im waiting for him to and Im just worried about what to say to his mother. She seemed very reasonable and I feel sorry for her, but am not prepared to have him over again. Just wonder if you think IABU. Gosh, sorry its so long

Rinky you are clearly a far more responsible person than the mother of the unwelcome boy in the OP's garden. You are willing to supervise and manage behaviour actively. The mother of the boy clearly doesn't and then moans that the OP is excluding him. Well that is not on.

The point I was trying to make is that the boy should be taken to any other place, home, park, wherever - but SUPERVISED.

Thanks Bewitched

He can't stop the spitting OP, think that you were told that. Have to agree, you're not doing yourself any favours with your last few comments.

wilson doesnt matter how many other kids are in her garden - its a private garden and if she doesnt want him there he should leave - end of.

Maybe go and have a chat to he's mum. Poor woman probably just wants him to be included and maybe doesn't realise he is getting over excited and using bad language.

If you feel uncomfortable having him there then don't. It's your home. You sound like a lovely Person sharing your garden with all those children!

Personally I think I'd be inclined to keep the back gate and have a few days of just family in the garden, and tell everyone that it's all getting a bit too boisterous and you want a quiet couple of days. Sounds as though you are becoming the neighbourhood outdoor play ranger.

YANBU to me the key issue is that without this boy there the others are able to enjoy themselves with minimal adult intervention. When he is involved then play becomes too hectic and you have to take an active role. I'd also worry if something happened to any of the other children in your garden as a result - as I think you could be held responsible for this.

If we leave aside everything else then this is patently unfair on you. I can totally see why the mum wants him to be involved, but I think the options are a) boy can no longer play in the garden as it makes overall play too disruptive or b) boy can play but his mum needs to be in the garden with him, that way he can feel included but she can be the one to provide that intervention and guidance when required.

Inertia - I love having loads of DCs in our garden as DS is an only, doesn't bother me at all as they all generally play well together. Perhaps the OP is the same.

This is really hard, because it seems to come down to what it means for society at large to truly accept that some people simply cannot operate within the usual social norms (i.e. not spitting).

People who don't have disability/special needs in their family get to choose how they "allow" disability/special needs into their lives, i.e. they regard it as optional. It makes for some uncomfortable situations, like this one.

I wish I knew what the answer was.

But it certainly reads differently to me to ask AIBU to stop this boy who's behaving badly from playing in my garden rather than AIBU to stop this boy with special needs I don't want to accommodate from playing in my garden. I think it's the latter that is the situation here?

Must go and look at the MN campaign thingy - sounds interesting.

You should have told her what he called you. I wouldn't have let him in to appease her, there's something seriously wrong with her for repeatedly coming up to your door to try and force you to let her kid in.

Regardless of diagnosis, she needs to teach him proper behaviour, what's acceptable, that he's not entitled to go into other peoples private gardens and won't be welcomed if he spits/curses. There's no excuse for her behaviour, I wouldn't let my toddler invite herself unwanted into the neighbours garden ffs, kids can't get everything they want and need to hear no, she's being very rude and entitled...(wonder where he gets it from)

While you do not have to accept someone in your garden who spits and swears, some kids with special needs will not be able up help it. It is a valid excuse - albeit one you don't have to tolerate.

This particular case is complicated by the mother not providing the supervision her child would appear to need - but please lets not go off on one about 'there's no excuse for that sort of behaviour, SN or not' because those sorts of general comments are not fair or appropriate.

I can not believe the cheek of this mother and her son, thinking they have the right to demand to come in your garden. I would stick to your guns, they sound like a strange family to get involved with based on the mothers behaviour.
My nephew has Aspergers, and finds social situations very difficult, but my sister would never allow him to behave in such a way, he has boundaries enforced the same as my niece.

'she needs to teach him proper behaviour, what's acceptable, that he's not entitled to go into other peoples private gardens and won't be welcomed if he spits/curses'

zatya, you really have no idea what you are asking here.
Just teach him? Like that? Shazaam and it's accomplished?
You have no idea what she has managed to teach him so far, or how long it has taken.

Silver, no one said it was going to be simple, but yes, it doesn't matter how long it takes, manners need to be taught to all kids, SN or not.

My Aspie is 18, he's still a work in progress. Some things I have been unable to teach him, and other things took an age. Your comment seemed rather glib to me.

Evening everyone,

Thank you to those who brought this thread to our attention. This is a perfect opportunity to show off our new campaign (and thank you to those who have already mentioned it!), This Is My Child, which aims to inform and raise awareness about children with additional needs. Strokey, you might find our page myths about children with special needs interesting, and possible helpful if you talk to the mum again.

As ever, we will delete posts that break our talk guidelines, so please do report anything you'd like us to look at.

Oh dear - farrow please read the This Is My Child campaign.

OP does not have to have the child in her garden - I don't think anyone has a problem with that, but these 'they have to learn' comments are getting ridiculous. They are what the mumsnet campaign is about.

Just to add to my post - just because it's hard to explain to your child why they can't go somewhere, doesn't mean you don't have to do it. If necessary again and again and again as nauseam. It's very wearing and not something you should have to do to a total stranger.

How on earth is my comment of ALL children need to be taught manners ridiculous?

I've already explained, I have a SN son. He gets pulled up on his behaviour all the time. If I don't do this, he'll never learn.

Because farrow some children are not capable of learning manners. Rather like some children in wheelchairs can learn to walk & some can't. Capabilities are individual.

Some children with special needs will not a be able to learn manners or appropriate behavior.

Op I think in the fist instance you should have said to his mum what he said, explained how you can't cope with that kind of behavior and I would have said he could stay if she stayed to supervise him. It sounds as though he needs supervision and that is obviously not your responsibility.

Interestingly we have a similar situation with a boy who lives in the same, cul de sac who has special needs, at times he has been too rough and his language is not appropriate, I spoke to his mum and nan who spoke to him and if I hear him I will just say to him that its not OK around the little children.

In some situations I taught my son silence.
Then he could ask his questions later.
But he's able and capable of learning that sort of subtlety. There are other things he cannot deal with, whatever the 'teaching'

Generally, I feel that we are making progress in terms of awareness and inclusion of people with special needs. Certainly things are better than they were when my brother was a child. He is on the autism spectrum, quite high functioning in many ways but clearly with additional needs. His childhood was spent being excluded (at best) and viciously bullied. No one thought twice about treating him like dirt, because he was "weird."

I do think things are better nowadays. But then I read some comments on threads like this, and I know we have a long way to go.

It's a tough one.

I like to have kids round to play in my back garden when I have the padding pool out.

However I have steep steps up and down to it so won't have friends DD who is only 3 unless her mum or dad could come to watch her. Equally if a child had a physical disability that made using the steps difficult then I would insist an adult was present.

It's not about excluding anyone. It's about making sure that everyone is looked after and that anyone who can't manage is supported by someone responsible.

The same would apply to a child with sn. If they were friends with my dc then I wouldn't exclude them because they had sn. But I would exclude them if there was no one willing to enable them to be included. I understand that children with sn can't help their behaviour and that every child is unique and individual in the level and type of support that they need.

But in this case it isn't uo to the op to provide that support or care. It is her garden.

Wasn't there a thread at the start of the summer holidays from a mum with a little boy with sn who after swearing at a little girl was being excluded from a neighbours garden?

It's the same story from a different perspective. I think the advice to that mother was speak to the neighbours and explain. I think some people were cross on behalf of her ds.

Hope the op of this thread isnt the neighbour!

There is also the disparity in ages to be taken into account. The child from next door is older, bigger and stronger than the other DCs playing in OP's garden. I wouldn't be comfortable with just that fact.

When my DCs were young ours was the garden where children gathered but I wouldn't allow children a lot older than mine round to play. It tended to get rough and lead to tears.