So my quiet town had a visit from our traveller 'friends' this week and

[AndThatsWhatIThinkOfYou]

They wonder why people are so against them setting up camp where ever they please.

They arrived last Wednesday on a football field with a park and caused a whole load of trouble, for example, going to the petrol station handing over euros, being told they won't accept euros as payment, they simple got in their vans and drove of.

Made a visit to our local Sainsburys got caught shoplifting, were locked in until police were called.

Local children playing on park got beaten up with sticks by the traveller children.

And to top it all of 3 vans pulling up outside a local pub, very busy, dropping their trousers and all three disgusting men casually took a shit one by one on the pub doorstep. Got in there vans and drove of.

Then left the football field and park in an absolute mess. Rubbish everywhere.

Each incident police were called but nothing has been done.

So AIBU to wonder why travellers think this behavior is acceptable? and why can't anything be done to stop it?

Your post explicitly said 'force them into settling down', Tabitha.

Well, regardless of anyone's opinions the courts have ruled that homeless Travellers cannot be forced into housing (Willers and Johnson 2004) so I'm afraid it's not "tough sausage" something else needs to be done.

If you break the law you should go to prison, I believe that. Simple. I was incredibly frustrated that the parents of the children I worked with were never fined for keeping their children at home.

If a child is being bullied for their race then yes, I do think that is someone else's fault.

Force them into living by the same rules as everyone else would be more accurate. Plenty of people travel but they do so on their own dime, not on the state.

BlueEmerald, it's not "contortions". They are socialised according to their environment, same as you or I. You can't expect a traveller to be a product of your environment.

expatinsctoland you are hilarious if you think that caravan park operators do not do everything in their power to keep them out.

Look at it from their side Tabitha why should we all not live in accordance with their traditions what makes our so superior?

and I wouldnt blame them either

Well, technically, if you travel, you have no fixed abode, anyhow.

So why don't they travel from holiday park to holiday park then the way, say, retired people who own touring caravans do. Many of these sites have online booking. There's no way to know they are 'travellers' on a website.

expat most keep them out, which is a shame, but because it would impact on their business and customers negatively (or they think it would, don't think many people have tried!)

'expatinsctoland you are hilarious if you think that caravan park operators do not do everything in their power to keep them out.'

How would they know? Do they ring up and say, 'Hi, we need to make a booking. We're travellers.'

I mean, if you want to travel, that's a legal means of doing so.

I thought that was my point... I don't expect Traveller children (my main point of contact, although I got to know the parents/relatives too) to be a product of my environment, no more than I expect the children I work with now (from equally deprived backgrounds but not Travellers) to be a product of my background. They are a product of how they grow up and it's really tough, I'm not saying that therefore we should let them run riot but that the issue is very complex and will take years and years to start to change. But as Travellers don't vote and people who live in naice villages do it's never going to be a priority.

Force them?!

I think I remember reading in another social studies book that there has always a percentage of society that can't integrate/assimilate /engage, or seek employment (however it was expressed, that was the gist though). This fact has been acknowledged long before the world changed and closed down the trading opportunities that travellers used to have available to them. (trading in copper and tin). Travellers usen't to find it so hard to live alongside settled people.

Why don't they exercise their right to vote then?

expat I don't know the answer to that but I would speculate that Travellers don't travel for the sake of travelling, I don't think they wander. Travellers travel for work, family events and to meet up with family. I think there are routes and destinations in mind.

Same reason that many voting is low in other disadvantages communities, expat - lack of connection with the political process, feeling like it makes no difference, feeling like they have little or no stake in society.

Sadly we had a very unpleasant encounter here a couple of months back when some moved into a car park in our town. DD1 works at a well known fast food restaurant often villified on here and a small group of them came in.They tried making out the bill was wrong, ordered a whole lot of stuff and said they'd ordered other stuff, ate half the food and then tried to get refunded on what they'd eaten, etc. The restaurant checked and double checked and they had not been overcharged or given anything wrong, they were just trying to get free food. They send the kids to complain so it's harder for staff to say no. They then basically trashed the place, throwing all their rubbish all over the floor, smearing the tables with food, etc. DD1 said the mess they left had to be seen to be believed.She had a terrible shift that day.

She was quite sad over it because I've always brought her up never to judge other cultures and also I've spelled out some of the problems traveller families face etc. I think she saw all her liberal thinking going up in smoke. I said what people have said on here, that just because those travellers were awful doesn't mean all are. However, it was a shame they behaved so badly as it does make people generalise.

On holiday parks, travellers want to maintain a travelling lifestyle, in the sense of an identity rather than simply being on holiday, or travelling while retired.

If you have no fixed address it is difficult (but not impossible) to vote. I also imagine a lot of the reasons many disenfranchised people don't vote would apply to Travellers too. Many may not even be literate enough, or worry they are not literate enough to vote. And if there is no one willing to stand up for you (because it will loose you your seat) then I'd imagine it's hard to pick the best of a bad bunch.

Travellers have to jump through hoops to book their weddings. I guess in the UK if a traveller rings up to book a wedding the receptionist just thinks 'irish person on the phone' but in Ireland it is very difficult for travellers to book a wedding as the staff would not only be more aware of what traveller names are but they would recognise the traveller accent and way of speaking and other patterns to do with booking/numbers etc.

Expat, they usually specify no vans/work vehicles and no caravans over a certain length ( and sometimes no children!) as a way of keeping travellers out.

Yep, Beeroclock, same for funerals, or any other social/religious event.

I had an idea:

The traviling community could buy land and make a route around the UK and NI/IR for the use of tempary campsites.

Bluemerald,

Like you, I have had reasonably extensive contact with Travellers through work (significant minority group in my last school a) because of a large - pristine, well-maintained, orderly, law abiding - settled site nearby and b) because the school worked exceptionally hard over many years to earn their trust.)

The LEA took one of the Traveller community to court for her children's non-attendance at school - with the total support of the community, because they felt she was 'letting them and their school down.

Once sufficient, decently maintained permanent Traveller sites are provided by every county in the country, then I might join in the condemnation of those who set up camp in non-authorised sites. Equally, once all Travellers are treated, as individuals, with reasonable respect and courtesy (that which would be extended to anyone of any other ethnic group) until they as individuals have shown that they wish to be aggressive, then I would join in the condemnation of behaviour by Travellers as a group. Having witnessed, first hand, exactly how groups of Travellers doing absolutely nothing wrong are treated 'by the general public' (crossing the road in an exaggerated fashion to avoid the, name calling, taunting, throwing rubbish - and that was to primary school age children) I am not suprised by the response of some Traveller groups...

'Why can't they just live in brick houses?' - would you ever say 'Why don't Muslims simply worship in the local church?'