So my quiet town had a visit from our traveller 'friends' this week and

[AndThatsWhatIThinkOfYou]

They wonder why people are so against them setting up camp where ever they please.

They arrived last Wednesday on a football field with a park and caused a whole load of trouble, for example, going to the petrol station handing over euros, being told they won't accept euros as payment, they simple got in their vans and drove of.

Made a visit to our local Sainsburys got caught shoplifting, were locked in until police were called.

Local children playing on park got beaten up with sticks by the traveller children.

And to top it all of 3 vans pulling up outside a local pub, very busy, dropping their trousers and all three disgusting men casually took a shit one by one on the pub doorstep. Got in there vans and drove of.

Then left the football field and park in an absolute mess. Rubbish everywhere.

Each incident police were called but nothing has been done.

So AIBU to wonder why travellers think this behavior is acceptable? and why can't anything be done to stop it?

Im not saying its right but I'm going to guess they shat on the doorstep of the pub as the landlord doesn't let them in to use the loo.

There should be more public loos, councils tore them down in cost cutting measures. Now it's rare to find one and I think it's yet another (small) way we discriminate against the poor (not saying this social group is necessarily poor) as you have to go and spend money in places to use the loo.

This thread will go down like a lead balloon.

They can actually shit in their own caravans you know...

There is nothing to stop these people from settling down and living a normal, law-abiding life.

Nothing? so they would find it easy to get a job and a house and be accepted by their new neighbours would they? Their kids would be welcomed in school, other parents would happily let their DC play with them etc? I don't think so.

It's not a lifestyle choice for the children, but it is a difficult lifestyle/background to break away from when old enough to make decisions - especially with poverty, lack of education, lack of positive role model, and tonnes of prejudice against you.

Every summer groups of travellers pitch up in our area. I agree that when they move on they do leave a mess. While they are here stats show that petty crime increases. Stuff goes missing from gardens. In our area there have been pet dogs taken from kids.

Of course non travellers behave badly too and i do feel sorry for those travellers who are decent people but unfortunately the ones that come here don't do a good job for travelling people on the PR front.

Not sure what the answer is.

How would we react to any other group who break the law by withdrawing their children from education?

I live in an area where there are a lot (relatively speaking) of travellers and we have no trouble from them that I know of, until it comes to flouting the planning laws. And it seems that the local councils are happy to allow travellers to build residential things on fields.

maybe if the problem causing ones changed their attitude and stopped thinking everyone owed them something, and stopped the disgusting behaviour then maybe they would be accepted.

"TabithaStephens I'm torn between telling you to fuck off and explaining that being a Traveller is no more a choice than being black. I've known plenty of Travellers who have "settled down" and live law abiding lives (as much as any of us do) and still suffer from all the mentioned problems. "
What problems?

"Nothing? so they would find it easy to get a job and a house and be accepted by their new neighbours would they? Their kids would be welcomed in school, other parents would happily let their DC play with them etc? I don't think so."
Would they find it any harder than anyone else to get a job or a house?

How would anyone know they were a former "traveller" unless they went around telling everyone?

Hear we go again with the massive generalizations against an entire group of people that's perfectly acceptable but only as long as it's aimed at travelers. I bet if I listed some shitty stuff my African or Asian neighbors had done and asked why Africans or Asians thought it was acceptable I'd be labelled a bigot, right?

It's a shame they shit on the pub doorstep and not yours OP.

Thread hidden.

I think the answer is more permanent sites. The Department of Communities and Local Government reported that 83% of Travellers live on permanent sites and from what I've witnessed (admittedly only two communities in London) it seems to help.

We seem locked into unproductive positions where many travellers feel no compunction to observe any even basic social norms, and an awful lot of settled people feel no compunction to treat travellers with anything other than hostility and contempt.

The two are connected, of course. Where we go from here I've no idea.

Some travellers are arseholes. Some non-travellers are arseholes. Some travellers are lovely people. Some non-travellers are lovely people.

OP, you seem to have encountered a group of arseholes who happen to be travellers. YANBU to be disgusted by their actions, but YABU to think that represents travellers as a community in their entirety.

We have a group of thoroughly unpleasant travellers where I live too. They move around the area pitching up at any field available. The shops won't stop the, stealing because they're terrified of the repercussions, I did call the RSPCA one year though because they abandoned a lame horse on one of the sites

I won't bother going into detail but I'll just add a vote to say that I have had years of experience with travellers and all were unpleasant. They always leave a shit tip behind them that has to be cleaned up. No respect. Not these ones anyway.

Scotland has stiffer laws against parking up on footie pitches and the like. It is easier to move such people on. Seems to work better.

TabithaStephens The problems you quoted "poverty, lack of education, lack of employment"
I would add a startling high infant mortality rate (Gypsy and Irish Traveller mothers are twenty times more likely than mothers in the rest of the population to have experienced the death of a child), lower life expectancy (average 10 years for an adult male), levels of alcoholism and domestic violence are high too, suicide rates are also high. They were dubbed one of the most marginalised groups in society in 2006 by the Commission for Racial Equality.
It's not the life of riley some people seem to think.

The ASB issues displayed by some Travellers give those opposed to any Travellers ammunition to use against them.
Residents opposing sites, parents moving children from schools that have a high Traveller intake, businesses and communities refusing to accept them.
So the only recourse is the HR laws and the laws of the land if Travellers want equal rights, and that gets balanced against the damage, the tipping and waste, and the cost incurred by residents.
I have no idea what the answer is, creating sites will always be an uphill struggle if the negatives are seen to hugely outweigh the sense of obligation to other human beings and that no one can point to any positives for having a site in their neighbourhood as opposed to 'elsewhere'

Oh, charming. Yet another thread of sweeping generalizations and prejudice.

If all of the incidents in the OP actually occurred, then blame the incompetence of your local police for not coping effectively. And stop with the prejudice, for God's sake.

Planning laws mean they can't buy land to live on. They don't want to live in brick houses. And, I believe, a cycle of depression and hopelessness tied with self esteem so low you can't imagine "stops" them obeying the law. Education is tricky, many parents suffered horrendously at school and feel that their children might experience the same (many do, I've witnessed it). They also feel the national curriculum we have isn't relevant to them and I believe we (the education establishment) have a responsibility to change that view.