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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

So my quiet town had a visit from our traveller 'friends' this week and

885 replies

AndThatsWhatIThinkOfYou · 15/08/2013 13:20

They wonder why people are so against them setting up camp where ever they please.

They arrived last Wednesday on a football field with a park and caused a whole load of trouble, for example, going to the petrol station handing over euros, being told they won't accept euros as payment, they simple got in their vans and drove of.

Made a visit to our local Sainsburys got caught shoplifting, were locked in until police were called.

Local children playing on park got beaten up with sticks by the traveller children.

And to top it all of 3 vans pulling up outside a local pub, very busy, dropping their trousers and all three disgusting men casually took a shit one by one on the pub doorstep. Got in there vans and drove of.

Then left the football field and park in an absolute mess. Rubbish everywhere.

Each incident police were called but nothing has been done.

So AIBU to wonder why travellers think this behavior is acceptable? and why can't anything be done to stop it?

OP posts:
cushtie335 · 17/08/2013 11:33

Just to add, I respect both sides of the argument when they're presented without foaming at the mouth.

Coconutty · 17/08/2013 11:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

alemci · 17/08/2013 11:38

nice to see you too Feenie. You don't post very often and only seem to post on similar discussions.

Al0uise · 17/08/2013 11:38

Who me?

You're having a laugh right?

Coconutty · 17/08/2013 11:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Feenie · 17/08/2013 11:40

nice to see you too Feenie. You don't post very often and only seem to post on similar discussions.

I suggest you adjust your search terms.

Al0uise · 17/08/2013 11:42

There is a police report stating that a Traveller group caused problems on my land.

Would you like the crime reference number? Or the reason why it wasn't worth pursuing them in court?

Coconutty · 17/08/2013 11:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

alemci · 17/08/2013 11:42

i can see that Coconutty but OOH do you not think some people have valid points and what is the solution?

Coconutty · 17/08/2013 11:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BoneyBackJefferson · 17/08/2013 11:49

Coconutty

How would you have worded the original OP so that it wasn't "racist"

TimeofChange · 17/08/2013 11:51

My post mentioning Institutionalised Racism in the police - which is a fact- has been deleted.

I RL I avoid racists and bigots.
I am very lucky that I have good, decent friends, family and work colleagues who are people of integrity and honesty.
They treat all people, regardless of class, religion and colour with respect.
Many of them campaign for a better, fairier world for all.

I'm now leaving MN, never to return, not even to peek at AIBU.

The racism on this thread has made me feel physically sick and the last straw was getting my post deleted.

I never wish anyone ill, so best wishes to you ALL.

AmberLeaf · 17/08/2013 11:51

we will delete racist posts, or posts that make blanket negative assertions or generalisations about all Travellers

Really?

This is from the opening post;

So AIBU to wonder why travellers think this behavior is acceptable? and why can't anything be done to stop it?

So why didn't you delete that?

Merylz · 17/08/2013 11:55

I agree.

That is never going to make things better. I think it would be interesting (or horrifying) to read a thread on a traveller forum where travellers have been going about their business with no mind for trouble and have faced prejudice. I'd say travellers have more experience of prejudice than the settled community have of anti-social behaviour at the hands of travellers specifically.

Alouise, I see your frustration as it wouldn't be fair if you had to pay for damage the horses did after escaping from your field, but it is the law that allows that situation that would make me cross. PEOPLE (some people) will exploit a loophole. The laws need to be tightened up to protect people from a situation where they can find themselves in trouble with the law when somebody else's horses have damaged somebody else's land! That does sound very unfair.

But standing around slagging off travellers isn't going to create an inclusive environment. I might be written off as a lentil weaving socialist here but I just accept that not everybody is the same, not everybody can BE part of the establishment and play by the same rules. why is that so hard to understand? why can't we just accept that any society will have a sector that rejects the establishment, or the normal rules! I think sociology books refer to this, that there will always be 'outsiders'. So anything passed off as debate that talks about forcing outsiders or travellers to conform to our rules is a waste of time.

Social welfare supports a lot of settled people who contribute nothing. So why is there such strong objection to funding facilities such as running water, and refuse collections on a halting site?1 There is no shortage of land in the UK either, or in Ireland. You can see that when the planes come in to land!!

Coconutty · 17/08/2013 11:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
AndThatsWhatIThinkOfYou · 17/08/2013 11:56

hardly racist think your being slightly extreme.

if I had added 'some travellers' would that of made it better ?

OP posts:
alemci · 17/08/2013 11:56

this is all well and good. What though if a person has tried to be reasonable and polite towards certain members of the discussed group and have felt intimidated and uncomfortable. Are they just supposed to forget about it or are they not allowed to voice an opinion. This is very subjective.

Al0uise · 17/08/2013 12:07

We live in a country with laws. When those laws are broken there are sanctions. When the same laws are breached by the same section of society we need to tackle that section of society.

Targeted reporting and targeted solutions. For example in the case of FGM we look at the section of society who see this as part of their culture. We have a police operation which concentrates on Black on Black crime.

It's not racist to pinpoint where the problems are coming from and target them.

It's extremely unhelpful to ignore evidence to help maintain racial harmony at any cost.

AmberLeaf · 17/08/2013 12:24

if I had added 'some travellers' would that of made it better

It would show that you dont think that behavior is because they are travellers.

But you didn't put that because that isn't what you think.

Merylz · 17/08/2013 12:28

I can't believe a poster had a post deleted for saying there is institutionalised racism in the police! sure the police knows that !! why was THAT comment deleted Confused

BonaDrag · 17/08/2013 12:32

I know the owner of a small hotel that was trashed during a traveller wedding. He lost a lot of business and the insurance didn't cover all the damage. The local function rooms in my home town (usually rented out for charity events etc) was absolutely destroyed following a traveller communion. There was shit on the walls, the bar was smashed up. It couldn't re open for a long time.

I understand why travellers get stigmatised. IMO some of it is justified when things like the aforementioned happen. However I absolutely believe that this kind of trouble is caused by a small number of travellers and most wouldn't do anything of the sort. It's sad but there you go.

Al0uise · 17/08/2013 12:32

Because not ALL police are racist?
Because it's a generalisation?
Because only SOME police have been accused of racism?

Same objections that keep cropping up on this thread wrt travellers?

JakeBullet · 17/08/2013 12:33

Someone asked earlier about council tax. My Mum worked for the local Council Tax department for a while (until leaving for another dept as she couldn't cope with the judgemental colleagues she had). In relation to Dale Farm....big illegal site, they were sent council tax demands same as everyone else. Mum said that many DID in fact pay but a significant minority did not....and were very difficult to pursue.

MrsAMerrick · 17/08/2013 12:36

A group of Travellers moved from village to village last year in our area. A nearby village was up in arms when they arrived, the Travellers settled in a (disused) field and within a couple of hours village "worthies" had called the police and tensions between the travellers and locals were simmering. After a week they moved on, leaving quite a lot of mess behind them. They came to our village, and settled on an area of hardstanding in an underused area. A couple of people from our parish council went to talk to them to try to understand the situation. The Travellers explained that they were on their way to join a travelling fair, as they usually ran stalls etc but that the fair couldn't go where it was booked to because of recent heavy rain which meant that fair rides etc would ruin the fields where the fairground would be held. They were therefore having to "hang around" until the fair was back on its usual annual route and they could rejoin it (None of these travellers seemed to have any rides with them). Our parish councillors asked them to try to keep the area tidy and provided them with bin bags. The Travellers moved on the following week, leaving their rubbish in the black bags provided, neatly piled up in the corner of the area where they had been staying. It seems that, in that particular case, the behaviour of the Travellers was a response to how they were treated by the local community.

JakeBullet · 17/08/2013 12:40

Many travellers are fine and easy to live alongside from my experience.

However, going to chuck in here that my opinion is the issues are caused in the main by YOUNG traveller men. Not all but a significant number of them and that is concerning...especially if the travellers themselves are not recognising this.