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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be riled by this comment from a colleague?

274 replies

dancingwithmyselfandthecat · 14/08/2013 12:28

Someone I manage has requested emergency leave (unpaid - for the next couple of weeks) because her childcare arrangement for the holidays has fallen through.

I said that I would bring it up with my manager as soon as I could today, but explained that it is unlikely we will be able to accommodate the request because we are low staffed anyway (what with it being August and having accommodated other people's planned leave requests) and have some big deadlines coming up. I said that we may be able to meet her halfway, but she may need to make other arrangements, and if she needed some time today to ring around that would be fine.

To which she replied "Well, there's no way I can ask my husband because he earns more than me and has the more important job".

Now, I won't take this comment into consideration one way or another, but AIBU to be annoyed by it? From our perspective, she is a well-paid, full time employee with responsibilities. It is neither here nor there as to whether in a private context she and her DH consider him to be the "dominant" worker. And from a women-in-the-workplace/feminist perspective, what hope do we have of gaining greater equality when women treat their professional responsibilities in this way?

OP posts:
pianodoodle · 14/08/2013 22:41

I gave her two options, based on some of the things I was thinking through upthread

I don't think this is very professional of you - sorry!

Mimishimi · 14/08/2013 22:44

To be fair to her, I don't think there are a huge number of options available to her. If a friend asked me to provide emergency care at very short notice, I could probably manage a few days here and there but unless somethinb had happened to make us stay home, definitely not for the entire two weeks. If it started being asked each and every holiday, I might consider refusing. Holiday care schemes usually require you to book well in advance and childminders likewise.

ChippingInHopHopHop · 14/08/2013 22:46

No, highly unprofessional of the OP to take on board others opinions, work out what is fair/reasonable/do-able for both her employee & her company and act on it... totally unprofessional.

Hmm
ChippingInHopHopHop · 14/08/2013 22:47

Holiday care schemes usually require you to book well in advance and childminders likewise

No, actually, they don't. It's easier if you do... but it's perfectly possible to book last minute childcare if you want to (unless you live in the back of beyond, in which case, yes - it's a bit harder).

ElsieOops · 14/08/2013 22:51

"I don't think there are a huge number of options available to her"

She doesn't need a huge number of options - maybe see if any of her friends could have the children for one or two days or a couple of half-days, find a holiday club for a few days, maybe work a weekend instead of weekday/do an early shift/late shift etc.

Basically she needs to show that any time not at work is genuinely due to problems, not due to a can't be bothered attitude.

Hissy · 14/08/2013 23:05

I booked my DS in for an extra couple of days when I realised the flaming school has 2 insets in thé first week of Sept.

£20 a day. Normally £25 but as i've had most of the rest of the holidays with them, they've done me a deal. Round here the camps can be as much as £32, but these are for extended days with loads of full on activities.
If this woman was to negotiate that her hours worked around a normal day, she'd incur less cost.

youvegotmail · 14/08/2013 23:18

She was unprofessional to say it (albeit honest). You are unprofessional to post on a forum asking for advice about it.

rainrainandmorerain · 14/08/2013 23:39

There are some comments about the cost of emergency childcare that miss the point. 'It might be cheaper for her to take 2 weeks' unpaid leave than to pay for childcare.' etc.

Sorry, that's not good enough. The family might well be paying a lot of money, perhaps more than she brings in, for those 2 weeks, if they can get emergency childcare. That's not a reason not to do it. This is an emergency situation, not a day to day one.

If your car broke down unexpectedly but you needed it to get to work, would you just say you couldn't turn up for a while, or would you hire another car/pay for another form of transport to get you in to work for a short period? even if it was expensive? assuming you wanted to keep your job, that it.

I am sympathetic, I really am - and round here, there's no say she'd be able to get a place on a playscheme at this point, they are all way over subscribed. But there are nannies, part time nannies, childminders who would, especially for a premium, take children at short notice. If the family can share even a bit of childcare between them, depending on the age of the kids, I'd even be looking at extending some babysitter hours, if they were mature and reliable.

yes, it might well cost the family a fair bit, and more than they want to pay for those 2 weeks. But that's emergencies for you. I think being given time to sort things out AND having the option of taking kids in at least for a short time is helpful.

I also think the 'but shouldn't you put family first" comments are unhelpful. of course, BOTH PARENTS should put family first. The mother won't help the family if she loses her job, and the father is not helping the family if he is expecting his wife to hold down a job at the same time as being responsible for all emergency childcare.

celticclan · 14/08/2013 23:47

She should never have said it but in reality the lower paid person takes the brunt.

Before I was self-employed I earned around £75 per day and dh earned more than double that. Our family budget could not afford for dh to take unpaid leave.

We had no family support and having two people work full time did not work logistically or financially so I went freelance. Financially we are no better off at the moment but by the time my youngest starts school we will be doing ok.

I don't know how people manage with both parents working full time. My son was sick so much for his first year in nursery. We muddled through, if dh had taken the same amount of unpaid leave as I took we wouldn't have been able to afford to pay the mortgage.

AmandaHoldenmigroin · 15/08/2013 04:20

She was asking you for latitude, you gave attitude.she bit back.

SPBisResisting · 15/08/2013 06:54

Really? Attitude because the op thinks they will struggle to allow her two weeks off at short notice in august? Not attitude, just reality

flowery · 15/08/2013 07:00

I don't think two weeks off in August at short notice counts as "latitude". "Latitude" might be coming in later or leaving early for a couple of weeks, or a bit of working from home a few days.

saintlyjimjams · 15/08/2013 07:31

I have a child (teenager) I cannot book in for regular playschemes let alone emergency ones. Nor could I bring him into work. And I have no friends I could leave him with (they couldn't cope or they have children like ds1 themselves they are already caring for). I can only leave him with my mum, with a playscheme I get no choice of dates over at all & er that's it. Have no after-school care either. This thread reminds me why I will never work on someone else's timetable again (I work for myself - but one friend in particular keeps trying to persuade me to apply for p/t flexible work - interesting, senior & well paid - I keep trying to explain however flexible it is it won't be flexible enough).

So there are cases where there really are no other options. I can also imagine there may be cases where someone is just making ends meet that they couldn't afford to pay for childcare as well -making things very awkward. Who knows why this employee is so reluctant. She may be taking the piss, she may have individual circumstances that make it very difficult. Incidentally my DH is always happy to work from home in an emergency but his job involves a lot of clients travelling some distance to see him so it really is often not possible at short notice (easy enough to arrange in advance). As always whether someone is being fair or taking the piss is impossible to judge without all the facts

I'm with those who think this shouldn't be discussed on an Internet forum though. OP I can imagine you'll have your own questions to answer if the person concerns finds this thread. It's really not very professional.

AKissIsNotAContract · 15/08/2013 07:34

This is interesting for me as I'm the higher earner. DP and I are planning to try for a baby once we are married and have already discussed how he will be the one to take the career hit - dropping down to part time and taking days off if the child is sick etc. If the size of the income shouldn't matter perhaps I should be the one to be doing this?

SPBisResisting · 15/08/2013 07:37

Not at all AKiss. You should do what works for you as a family. The point is though that most people want to seem committed to their job and so will keep their "my job doesn't actually matter" cards close to their chest. The woman the OP is talking about hs chosen to let her employer see her true feelings. Which is her choice but most of us think she is misguided.

Fairyegg · 15/08/2013 07:44

My employers (nhs) have always made it quite clear to me that childcare is a joint responsibility between my dp and I. She has a cheek IMO. Surely her dh can take al? How much has she really tried to find childcare, has she rang every hol club / childminder for miles around? People like her are why some employers are put off empoying women. I suspect she just fancies a few weeks off with her kids.

SkinnybitchWannabe · 15/08/2013 07:50

My OH earns way more than me so if either of us needed to take unpaid leave its obvious it would be me.
Got absolutely nothing to do with feminism etc..its down to what goes in our bank account.

PGTip · 15/08/2013 07:54

Sounds like she's found a holiday she wants to go on!

With regards to the feminist issue, surely common sense must be more important and whoever earns the higher salary and therefore covers more bills needs to stay in work. I do get fed up with feminism being bandied around all the time as tho its bad for a mom to want to be just that. And yes I am a SAHM mom (till September, when I will start work as a TAGrin) who lives of her husband earnings (very 1950's, i love it) quite happily and i do all the housework & childcare & will continue when I work. DH has enough On his plate working 15+ hours a day without having to worry about things I can & do happily take care of. Phew rang over, back to the kitchen Wink

SPBisResisting · 15/08/2013 07:55

Skinny, but do you tell your work that ensuring your DH Doesn't take unpaid leave is more important that completing your duties in your own job?

bragmatic · 15/08/2013 07:56

"They'll get bored" would annoy me too, op

You've given her options to play with. Now she needs to sort out how she'll manage. Tell her to get back to you when she's worked it out.

SPBisResisting · 15/08/2013 07:57

nice for you PG. Some people don't want that to be the general assumption - that the man brings home the bacon while the little lady works for pin money or doesn't work.
Do you have a DD, and do you want her to grow up to marry a rich man>

flowery · 15/08/2013 08:02

Who earns the most is completely irrelevant to employers. Just because it would be more convenient to the family for the lower earner to take leave doesn't mean it's more convenient for the employer of the lower earner to bear the burden of inconvenience.

An employer is required to give unpaid emergency leave to a reasonable level. If the family decide between them that the higher earner won't bear any of this burden that will result in the lower earner taking more leave than is necessary purely for preference reasons, which is not a reasonable level as far as their employer is concerned.

digerd · 15/08/2013 08:12

In the 70s, we had one woman who went 'sick' for every schoolholiday. She always submitted a medical certificate from the Drs for "backache".
She was spoken to and asked to resign as was blatently abuse, but she refused and there was nothing that could be done. Shock.
She will have retired now on a full pension Confused

It is purely a financial practical matter that the much lower earner, be it male or female, take the time off work.

SPBisResisting · 15/08/2013 08:14

But as flowery says the lower earner's employer doesn't care that their employee is the lesser of the two earners! They just have to cover the absence.

BranchingOut · 15/08/2013 08:16

In fairness, I just googled holiday playscheme in my area of north London.

The first one had to be booked by 17th July.
The next one only ran to 23rd August.

It might not be as simple as just 'finding childcare' at this point in the summer, although I do agree that it can always be done if you are prepared to pay enough.

However, at what point for all of us do the costs outweigh the benefits of getting in to work? She knows that the employer is unlikely or unable to sack her for this - maybe for her it is worth weathering the temporary disapproval.... I wouldn't do this, but I can see that some people might, especially if their budgets were tight.