to think we should let go of the anger and the hatred

[yunito]

Have namechanged as this post contains some personal stuff and I suspect there are at least 2 people I know in real life on here and sorry in advance for the length of this OP.

My brother is 22 and he has not spoken to our parents for four years. As a family both my mum and dad were addicted to sailing, basically every weekend from March to November were spent pursuing this hobby (away from home either on the south coast or in north wales) and in the intervening months we would go on a holiday to warmer climates to go sailing. Mine his and out other sisters opinions on this were forcefully ignored and we were always told to be bloody grateful we weren?t starving like other children in the world. We all and my brother in particular were very shy and lacking in confidence and we never stood up to them until the age of 16 (I appreciate as eldest I should of perhaps said something on behalf of the other two as I was an adult long before they were). Although I thoroughly disagree with them for doing this and there is no way I would do it to my children I still have a reasonable relationship with them.

My brother however absolutely hates them and says that they robbed him of his childhood for their own ends and that he will never forgive them for doing this to him (my sister also holds his views but she has a cordial if infrequent relationship with them). My mum has been very ill in the last 3 months or so and has had to have a couple of operations, the second was an emergency one without which she would have died. I went to see her the day of this operation and before she went in she told me that if she didn?t make it all she wanted me to do was tell my brother that she was sorry for everything.

I?ve been thinking about this for a while and I really want him to reconcile with them, they both acknowledge their mistakes and would go back and change the past if they could. They do sporadically try to write/email him but they never receive any response. I just feel that the past cannot be changed and that the current situation is doing no good to anyone, for example he spends Christmas alone as I go round to theirs and my sister goes to her boyfriends. DP however thinks that I?m overstepping the mark even for a sibling and that his feelings are his feelings and he?s entitled to hold them no matter what anyone else thinks.

I could only afford a house with a 20 mile commute when DD was 5, and she suffered from carsickness.

So, I got her seasickness bands, herbal anti sickness remedies, ginger biscuits, changed my route so that it was mostly main roads (less corners = less sickness).

I made sure her car seat was a nice high one (more views out = less sickness). Gave her toys for the car, not books.

She was ill maybe once every two weeks (I carried a basin in the car for emergencies). Most times she was ill I took a half day in the morning and when she was better brought her to the childminder.

It took her a couple of years to grow out of it, she's 16 now and has few memories of being ill in the car.

However, I still feel guilty about making her do it - even though it only happened about twice a month, and I HAD to make that commute to pay the mortgage, put food on the table etc.

If I had put her through it for my own pleasure - well, to me that's the definition of a neglectful, selfish parent. Just because it's a hobby that costs money, doesn't mean it's automatically a good thing for children.

What sort of parent insist their child do something they hate and makes them ill? What sort of parent insists they do it EVERY weekend? Not the sort of parent who has any interest in their DC, I'd say.

Exactly on the bottom being sick isn't fun, infact i dread being sick and i'm luckily not to have suffered greatly with morning sickness.
To make a child go on continous journeys for their own pleasure knowing they are going to feel ill most or the entire time is neglect.
People that have money to do this stuff doesn't make them good parents at all.

My dad used to take us bushwalking (hiking) every single weekend too because that's all he wanted to do (apart from play his guitar). Guess what lessons in which instrument I got? Not always from him though since his friendship group revolved around these two things. Every single holiday revolved around camping,hiking and 'sing-a-longs'. I do understand the feeling that your brother might have liked to explore other things but that is what our teen years are for! Your brother is being a bit unreasonable to hold it against them after he reached an age where he could go and pursue his interests even if they did not go out of their way to support him. I still talk to my parents and .... pursue my interests on weekends which I drag my kids to.

I get seasick. I hate it, and I feel sick afterwards for a couple of days too. To me, being forced to feel like this every weekend is enough to make me hate someone. It's actually pretty abusive to put your kid through persistent nausea. I would prefer a whack and a bruise to feeling sick for hours and hours. Wow! I can't believe the lack of sympathy here. That's before any of the other things it's nice to do at the weekend, like going to parties or having hobbies.

Your brother is being a bit unreasonable to hold it against them after he reached an age where he could go and pursue his interests even if they did not go out of their way to support him

That depends on whether he was allowed to go off and do these things, or the parents insisted on the kids going sailing anyway. Some people do like to have an audience/entourage.

Agree with Elderitch, the line that they "forceably" made you sail suggests they were hardly open to your DB doing anything else with his life.

OP if you are still reading all these comments, you can be there for your DB, tell your mum you don't want to discuss it as it's not fair of her to make you int he middle of their argument (mind you, she's probably too selfish to realise she's being unfair on you trying to make you get your brother to talk to her, as selfish as the way she treated you all as a child). You can tell your DB you aren't prepared to discuss it either, so you d'ont want to hear him slagging off your parents. That way you can have a relationship with them both.

your DB might never be ready to 'let go' of the pain (which in men often presents as anger, as they don't feel as comfortable crying, it's coming from the same place), and even if he does let go of the anger, hatred and pain, it doesn't follow that he has to play happy families with his parents, regardless of their health situation. It would be good for him to let it go, but that doesn't automatically mean letting them back in his life. That's his choice, if he doesn't feel they will make his life better, there's no need to have them in his life.

I'm quite shocked at the tone of some the comments towards the OP's brother. Poor lad, having to spend Christmas on his own as well. I agree with those that have said you should support your brother OP, it seems to little to late on your parents part now. It's taken them until something like old age and illness for them to apologise to your brother.

FWIW for those criticising the brother, just because you weren't abused or neglected doesn't mean the emotional impact for your childhood hasn't done it's damage! I had a pretty good childhood on the outside - I was fed, had nice clothes, lived in a nice house, went to school, had a few holidays. Dig a little deeper and you would find that I was also my mother's marriage counseller (try hearing about your mother's sex life with your father when you're 12 years old), her "best friend", her confidant, I wasn't allowed to like anyone more than my mother. She was extremely jealous of all my friends and did her best to sabotage every friendship I had (and succeeded). This continued into adulthood, to the point were at the age of 35 I still have no friends, she gets jealous of my husband. I'm about to cut contact with her.

My DH on the other hand was neglected to the point of starvation as a child, (food would run out on a Thursday-Friday and he'd starve till his mother was paid on the Monday), he had ONE set of clothes and shoes, that he also slept in. He wasn't allowed to bathe, was only allowed to go to school sporadically and when he did go he was beat up because he smelt and wore rags. He was in and out of foster homes and children's homes until his aunt took him in at the age of 14 and that's when his education started.

He's never once turned around to me and said stop moaning about your childhood mine was worse than yours. So how those few on here can try and play top trumps with the worse childhood with this poor bloke is beyond me.

Very good post Regina.

I think you are taking too much on yourself, OP, you sound like a typical over-responsible oldest child. I think your "we" in the title is a freudian slip - you don't quite accept that getting past this is something only your brother can do.

However, having said that, maybe there is something you can do: if time is short due to age and ill-health, maybe your family would benefit from family therapy. It might be a good way to speed a healing process, because if your parents die before your brother gets there it will be very hard for him.

Still, although you could suggest this (and may get something out of it yourself) try not to take too much responsibility.

yes, very VERY well put Regina

what sadness though

FFS it's not the bloody sailing. It's the feeling that your parents don't give a shit about you, that they couldn't careless whether you were happy or not, it's every birthday party that you couldn't attend, every performance of your own hobby that fell on a weekend that was missed.

I think you should tell your Db what your mum said and leave it at that. It may be too soon for him to change his mind about your parents but at least you're giving him the chance. Emotions are bound to be heightened when parents become seriously ill.

You do all sound like you were unhappy as children though and that's sad to hear (whatever the cause) but its not up to you to make it right, nor was it ever. Try to let your siblings have their own relationships with your parents and let go of the feeling of responsibility. We just can't make those kind of choices for other people. Good luck.

Just to repeat, people, do you know why the Stately Homes threads are so named? Because the original poster, Droves, had 'the talk' with her parents - and they said "But we took you to Stately Homes!"

Another middle-class couple, this time with a National Trust membership, who overrode their children's individuality with their own, utterly rigid, ideas and honestly thought DC should be grateful

It's almost funny to see so many posters here going "But they took you sailing!" Only it's not funny, because it fucking hurts. A lot.

As I put in my earlier post amicissima, my alcholic dad tiok me to the pub with him, he didn't ignore us. Is that ok? Of course it wasn't. And just because this is sailing which some people see as fun doesn't make it any better.

It is still the wants and needs of two people rough riding over everyone else. The opening post does not read to me of fun spent family sociable weekends. It would have been equally unfair if ine childs hobby had been indudged forsaking all others. When one persons needs are met in a blinkered way at the expense of others it doesn't matter if the hobby is socially acceptable such as sailing or socially unacceptable, such as excessive drinking. The end result is going to be children who feel worthless and like they don't matter.

Sorry I've been away (I've been at work). I guess your all right its not my job and it is perhaps best left alone. I would reiterate that the we should be he in the title it was a freudian slip just a typo.

There are many, many children from wealthy families being emotionally neglected and who have parents who are unable to meet their emotional needs as we speak. My worry is always that no one is going to make allowances for them in the future and see past the private schooling, big house, designer clothes, all the latest gadgets and expensive holidays, treats and days out.

Well said GW297. As for the seasickness: maybe he was constantly throwing up or just feeling really dreadful, it doesn't matter. It's still cruel. I can just imagine the dread I would feel about that coming up every weekend.

To Agent ZigZag
Just a note to say thank you for acknowledging my golfing mother story on this thread. It meant a huge amount to me to hear your response. I tell these wee stories from my chilhood very rarely, and it's very comforting to feel that I'm justified in thinking they, my parents, could have done better.
I've gained an enormous amount of insight from peoples' insights and compassion on this thread, more maybe, than the OP. I always shy away from the Stately Homes thread because i know I'd belong. Maybe one day. Thank you for your kindness x

Are you the one that always fixed things OP?

Let your brother live his life, and support him. He's got a right to his anger, and to deal with it when he can.

Your mother and father cheated you all out of memories. They have to answer for that.

This thread is quite shocking, for Mumsnet. What's happened to everyone?

OP my brothers and I had a very similar childhood to you. We were dragged on boats every weekend and every holiday. If it wasn't to our boat then it was to the Boat Show at Earls Court. Atavistic hits the nail on the head with her golf story. It is about selfish and narcissistic parenting where only the interest of the parents are indulged.

Some posters have said how lucky OP was to have parents who shared their interest with them, but they have misunderstood the nature of this type of parenting. The interest isn't "shared" in any shape or form, the children are just dragged along to it, like dogs, and expected to keep themselves amused while the parents enjoy their interest. And it is pretty hard to keep yourself amused as a child for 48 hours on a boat with no tv, radio, toys, or books. Not to mention the cold, discomfort and frequent seasickness.

I loathed every minute of it. I had no social life outside of school because weekends were written off. The worst aspect was the creeping realisation that my parents regard for our needs and desires was limited at best.

OP, I believe that your parents probably failed you on other levels aside from the sailing, as indeed mine did. The sailing is probably just a symptom of their general neglect. Your brother could probably do with some counselling to work through the issues of his childhood, and come to a place where he can move on and forgive them.

Maybe send him some of the (supportive) messages from this thread, so that he knows he isn't alone, and that to feel the way he does is valid. However if he fails to reconcile with them he could end up regretting that even more than the misery of his childhood. All the best OP x

Too those saying "boohoo" "get over it" and the like.

Congratulations you are ignoring the OP's DB in the same way that the parents ignored the emotional needs of their children.

CatsAndTheirPizza - What do you mean this thread is shocking?