to think we should let go of the anger and the hatred

[yunito]

Have namechanged as this post contains some personal stuff and I suspect there are at least 2 people I know in real life on here and sorry in advance for the length of this OP.

My brother is 22 and he has not spoken to our parents for four years. As a family both my mum and dad were addicted to sailing, basically every weekend from March to November were spent pursuing this hobby (away from home either on the south coast or in north wales) and in the intervening months we would go on a holiday to warmer climates to go sailing. Mine his and out other sisters opinions on this were forcefully ignored and we were always told to be bloody grateful we weren?t starving like other children in the world. We all and my brother in particular were very shy and lacking in confidence and we never stood up to them until the age of 16 (I appreciate as eldest I should of perhaps said something on behalf of the other two as I was an adult long before they were). Although I thoroughly disagree with them for doing this and there is no way I would do it to my children I still have a reasonable relationship with them.

My brother however absolutely hates them and says that they robbed him of his childhood for their own ends and that he will never forgive them for doing this to him (my sister also holds his views but she has a cordial if infrequent relationship with them). My mum has been very ill in the last 3 months or so and has had to have a couple of operations, the second was an emergency one without which she would have died. I went to see her the day of this operation and before she went in she told me that if she didn?t make it all she wanted me to do was tell my brother that she was sorry for everything.

I?ve been thinking about this for a while and I really want him to reconcile with them, they both acknowledge their mistakes and would go back and change the past if they could. They do sporadically try to write/email him but they never receive any response. I just feel that the past cannot be changed and that the current situation is doing no good to anyone, for example he spends Christmas alone as I go round to theirs and my sister goes to her boyfriends. DP however thinks that I?m overstepping the mark even for a sibling and that his feelings are his feelings and he?s entitled to hold them no matter what anyone else thinks.

HaroldLloyd- Its not the sailing per se its the way that it isolated us, we had very few friends and were excluded from quite a lot of things growing up as we were always off going to whatever sailing meeting they wanted to go to.

I'd leave it, tbh. Your brother is a big boy, and can make his own choices.

It's also worth pointing out that just because someone has chosen as an adult to no longer have anything to do with their excuse for a parent, that it doesn't mean at all they're still eaten up with anger and hatred.

It's quite often the opposite. Sometimes breaking contact is the best way to let go.

Did I misunderstand your OP or miss something, yunito? Your brother is angry with your parents because they took him sailing every weekend? Is that it? I would have thought sailing would be an ideal sport for someone who is shy and lacking confidence. It builds teamwork skills and problem-solving abilities and you don't have to interact much unless you want to, unlike e.g football or tennis.

I'm just confused because it sounds like he's very resentful over nothing in which case YANBU to want him to let go of this. If it really is just the sailing then it's ridiculous to still be stuck in an adolescent strop over what your parents did at the weekends when he is a grown adult! Life is too short. Jeez, my parents forced me to go on pilgrimages to religious shrines but I'm still speaking to them (kind of )!

Maybe there is a lot more going on or maybe I misread your post so apologies if that is the case.

Sailing or religious shrines. Hmmm Tough choice.

I do see, just that cutting off your parents is so extreme isn't it.

I think you just shouldn't take on the stress of this yourself, your parents in a sense created this situation and its not for you to fix it. Must be very wearing. There's nothing you can do anyway, if he'd adamant I don't think you will change his mind. Especially as he didn't relent when your mum was ill?

Do you think his reaction is too extreme OP? Or do you understand it?

Listen to your Dh OP your brother is old enough to make his own mind up, so don't get involved.
I don't get that just because it was sailing every weekend they have nothing to whine about.
Not everyone likes sailing to the exclusion of anything else, it sounds boring as hell to me, and my Dh has dragged me off on boats for the past 20 years (weekly for while there) I know my teens would have enjoyed boats some of the time, but not as the exclusive family activity pretty much all year.

HaroldLloyd- I do understand his feelings and I have resolved to never do anything like that to my children. In the heart to hearts I've had with my parents they've exxpressed their regrets and wouldn't do it if they had their time over so I do feel its very extreme.

Why risk your relationship with him to help your parents, especially when you acknowledge that he has a point? If you meddle, you could leave him feeling as though you are on their side and then he will have one less family member. FWIW - I don't speak to my dad, my brother does, and we just respect each other's positions and leave it at that, which works well for us.

SolidGold is bang on the money here. I'm scratching my head in puzzlement at the three of you so traumatised by being taken on holiday. Seriously? You do know that there are kids out there who have really shit traumatic life changingly horrific childhoods? Did you know that?
Is this a wind up?

Basically they pursued their own selfish hobby throughout your childhoods.
Did they ever consider that it may have been their passion in life, but perhaps you and your siblings would have found something else, maybe something they excelled at?
Seems they were never given the chance.
Your brother feels how he feels, I hope he found something that gave him his own individuality.

Some of you need to acquaint yourself with Narcissistic Parenting, and the very real emotional damage caused to children who grow up with parents who always prioritise their own happiness and wellbeing over that of their children's.

It doesn't matter whether they were sailing or pissing it up in the pub all weekend or mumsnetting 24/7, the problem was that the children were deliberately and consistently made to feel second best and unworthy of their own feelings and interests.

This is nopt psychobabble. This is a very real issue.

Ladybeagleeyes- I thinks thats a really good description of how he feels.

Is there an obverse of that then?

I think you should tell him what your mother said about being sorry.

But I have to say that the whole thing seems extremely petulant. I have to say I do feel a bit sorry for your parents too. It seems like they tried to include their family in an activity which many families do together and enjoy.

You got to travel and go on holiday, your parents included you rather than dumping you off with relatives or in childcare.

I have to say an awful lot of kids sitting in council estates would kill for a childhood like that. I mean, come on 'robbed of his childhood'? It's not like they were holed up taking crack and drinking meths while you were all starving and freezing hiding in the cellar from their dealers is it?

Your parents might have been overbearing, but it does sound like they have rather ungrateful children too. I have to say I suspect that when your brother is a bit older and more mature he might realize that it is not just your mother who should be saying sorry.

I think that refusing to see your mother when she was sick was cruel.

Can I ask you why you don't have your brother for Christmas instead of going to your parents? Why doesn't your sister invite him to her boyfriend's house?

That poor boy. My son is 21 and I can tell you it's still really, really young.

Your parents have always been completely selfish to the point where none of the children could do anything they wanted to. For those who think "big deal" think of the thread on here at the moment where the OP's husband plays cricket. Quite rightly, virtually everyone was in uproar at him spending the weekend doing exactly what he wants, when he's part of a family.

This Christmas, tell your brother to come to your house for the day. Tell your parents you'll see them at another point of the holidays.

The thought of this boy spending Christmas on his own is really awful.

Sofia, selfish parents are selfish parents. The fact the children weren't starving doesn't mean they were happy. Their parents dragged them along whether they liked it or not.

Your parents spent all your childhoods obsessed with their hobby and now they want your brother to forgive them. Really, why should he? He can't get back a childhood now. It's too late.

I think it's up to him, not your responsibility at all. Don't you think it's convenient that your parents want forgiveness and reconciliation now, when it's too late for them to change their behaviour? If he forgives them and reconciles, they've had everything their way - the lifestyle they wanted despite having dc to care for, and now the dc to support them in old age.

I appreciate sailing is not drug taking or neglect, but it sounds like your childhoods revolved around their hobby and you were all very much second best. They sound very selfish.

It's so Mumsnet that so many people are jumping on the sailing aspect of this, and bitching about the perceived privilege, and rejecting the OP's take on things.

I come from a very similar family, OP. Except it was golf in our case. Utterly neglected for years, so that they could play yet more golf.

My mother was and is obsessed with golf.
She organised a birthday party for my 4 year old sister, and then realised it clashed with a competition she had entered, so she left me in charge of 7 4 year olds. I was 11. For 3 hours.

My best friend died when I was 14- a Neighbour came to tell us. I was hysterical and my father didn't know what to do. He bundled us into the car and went to find my mother at the golf club. He saw her on the 12th hole. He went over to tell her what had happened. She came over to speak to me, and then said that there was nothing she could do, so she resumed her game.

I still have a friendly relationship with my parents but I keep them at arms length but my brother is mentally ill, as a direct result of the neglect.

Do some of you want to wade it, and slag me off because I'm ungrateful for all those lazy days at the golf club?

OP, your parents put themselves first all those years. They are the ones who have to work at getting their son back, not you. Don't lose your brother over this. Do they still sail?

But they did take them sailing with them. Kind of like a fy activity.

Family

Fucking iPhone

It wasn't a family activity if 3/5 of the family didn't want to go!

I'm a bit surprised at some posters thinking that the children should have been grateful to have been taken sailing. All the time.

As an adventure every now and again - brilliant. All the time when they really didn't like it? How is that a treat, or pleasurable - or even tolerable?
What about all the normal friendships they missed out on?

Just because there are children who have to endure much worse things does not mean that this was good.

Just because sailing is a sport/pastime that requires money to do it does not mean that everyone would enjoy it. I'd hate it. The idea of being dragged along whether I wanted to go or not is horrible. Has no-one ever been seasick? It's a truly dreadful feeling.

It does sound heartless and selfish not to have considered the children's feelings at least some of the time.

Having said all that, I think you will have to let your brother and parents sort it out between them - though I completely understand your concern. I also think you should stop feeling responsible - you're not.

Sofia, what exactly does her brother have to be grateful for?

Perhaps it's a silly question but why couldn't you and your brothers make friends and have hobbies on weekdays if this unfortunate sailing hobby encroached on your weekends? Saying that you were isolated and never had a childhood does make one wonder what on earth you were doing every afternoon and evening between the end of the schoolday and bedtime. That's when my dc carry out their hobbies and do their socialising.

Yes, I get that your parents were selfish. Yes, I get that they have something to apologise for. But "deprived of a whole childhood"? Why did you waste all those other hours?