to think we should let go of the anger and the hatred

[yunito]

Have namechanged as this post contains some personal stuff and I suspect there are at least 2 people I know in real life on here and sorry in advance for the length of this OP.

My brother is 22 and he has not spoken to our parents for four years. As a family both my mum and dad were addicted to sailing, basically every weekend from March to November were spent pursuing this hobby (away from home either on the south coast or in north wales) and in the intervening months we would go on a holiday to warmer climates to go sailing. Mine his and out other sisters opinions on this were forcefully ignored and we were always told to be bloody grateful we weren?t starving like other children in the world. We all and my brother in particular were very shy and lacking in confidence and we never stood up to them until the age of 16 (I appreciate as eldest I should of perhaps said something on behalf of the other two as I was an adult long before they were). Although I thoroughly disagree with them for doing this and there is no way I would do it to my children I still have a reasonable relationship with them.

My brother however absolutely hates them and says that they robbed him of his childhood for their own ends and that he will never forgive them for doing this to him (my sister also holds his views but she has a cordial if infrequent relationship with them). My mum has been very ill in the last 3 months or so and has had to have a couple of operations, the second was an emergency one without which she would have died. I went to see her the day of this operation and before she went in she told me that if she didn?t make it all she wanted me to do was tell my brother that she was sorry for everything.

I?ve been thinking about this for a while and I really want him to reconcile with them, they both acknowledge their mistakes and would go back and change the past if they could. They do sporadically try to write/email him but they never receive any response. I just feel that the past cannot be changed and that the current situation is doing no good to anyone, for example he spends Christmas alone as I go round to theirs and my sister goes to her boyfriends. DP however thinks that I?m overstepping the mark even for a sibling and that his feelings are his feelings and he?s entitled to hold them no matter what anyone else thinks.

OP, you haven't said why you or your sister can't spend Christmas with your brother. Why does he have to be alone?

Perhaps your OP should have made it more clear if your parents were also cold or unloving and/or unable to help you to socialise at other times or, as if Adora put it (very sad post Adora ), there was no family life in your family.

The first post only mentioned the sailing/weekend thing, which in itself didn't seem to explain the shyness. I had friends who had to help their families and/or had to travel with them to remote weekend cottages every weekend and that in itself didn't seem to make them shy or anti-social. In my parents' generation it was pretty well the norm that you spent weekends helping out on the farm. Again, that didn't lead to a whole generation growing into social recluses.

If you had parents who were otherwise good and loving parents with a good relationship to their children, then the shyness and other things wouldn't necessarily follow.

So presumably there was something else that was also lacking in your family, OP?

I was dragged to various church events about 6 times a week and church based holidays, church based meetings in our home when I had to stay in my room and be quiet all evening, my friends who didn't go to church were kept away etc
It was and still is my parents obsession. They're moving out of their house into a flat further from us and their grandchildren than they are now but at least it's near the church
But they didn't beat the crap out of me literally as happened to my DH on more than one occasion.
The op's brother needs to move on for his own sake at the very least.

I would equate the sailing to Homer Simpson taking Lisa to Monster Truck Ralies etc, but at least Lisa had the opportunity to develop and carry out her love of reading etc.
Unfortunately both parents were involved with sailing, so there was no respite for the OP's brother to have his needs and wishes catered for.

It is a personal choice to forgive your parents for their neglect, it isn't always a mistake to cut of contact.

I agree with your DP, it is completely up to your brother, now that he is finally in control of his life and who he has in it.

I don't think you should get involved, I'm with your DP that your brothers feelings are his own and it's not up to you to change them

Your brother was clearly unhappy, I know sailing isn't exactly child cruelty but it does sound like a pretty awful childhood to me, was your brother seasick all the time?

I can't imagine not caring that my children were unhappy and ill every weekend as long as I was getting to do what I wanted, I can see why your brother and sister feel resentful now

ImperialBlether- I always go to our parents as they always invite us. My sister probably doesn't want to invite him to her boyfriends. I take your point though.

I think it's harsh to tell a 22 year old boy to move on from his feeling that he lost his childhood. Whether you think that's self indulgent or a first world problem, the fact is he feels estranged from his family at a very young age and for that he deserves our sympathy.

Why don't you invite him to your house this Christmas?

ImperialBlether- I think I will

Imagine someone insisting that their son (or daughter) always played football with them on Saturdays and Sundays - away from home and without any of their friends - and could never miss a fixture for any reason because it was something the parent wanted to do - even when their son or daughter would have preferred to be singing or dancing or reading.

Would that still be privilege that the child should be grateful for - because it's a healthy sport and lots of people like football?

The fact that it is sailing is a red herring.

Oh FFS. Mumsnet is beyond parody sometimes.

So the Mum is really sick and it sounds like she was close to death at one point. But her son still wouldn't talk to her because she took him sailing. When she was potentially dying.

I'm sorry, if that's not petulance I don't know what is. I can understand the brother being hacked off, I can understand him being unhappy that he wasn't able to do things that he would have preferred when he was younger.

But cutting off your family and claiming you were 'robbed of a childhood' is an absolute complete and utter over reaction in this case. I think it's a case where someone should tell him he's being a bit of a twat and to get over it.

I really don't think this is a situation where refusing to talk to your mother when she's seriously ill is warranted.

I agree with your DP. Your brother is still very young and should be left to work through his feelings at his own pace. It is sad when family members fall out in a big way but I don't think interference is always a good thing.

Am I right in thinking this has to be about more than sailing?

I am assuming that your parents were cold/distant/uninterested in you?

I am struggling to understand this otherwise.

ImperialBlether it IS self indulgent.

This is something that is quite common, in my DH's case it was religion, his family were rabid Catholics and they were very involved with the church and all activities surrounding it and the children were too. They were altar boys and in the choir and the vast majority of their weekends revolved around the church and their holidays were pilgrimages an retreats.

I think that he had a lot more of a balanced view about it though, he viewed it as a pain and boring but made the best of it.

For other kids it's country walks or being dragged around museums.

Equating this with 'robbed childhood' is incredibly self indulgent. I think perhaps this young man should spend some time doing voluntary work with an organization like the NSPCC so he can find out what a robbed childhood actually is.

No, ImperialBlether, I disagree entirely. No-one deserves sympathy for having been taken sailing. It smacks of just blamey self-indulgent cossetted whinging. And I fucking hate sailing because it makes me sick. But I would have negotiated sleepovers with friends, times away from the boat etc. I would have regarded it as (another) parental eccentricity. I would not be divorcing my parents for this.

It's bang out of order - attention seeking and mean tbh - on the facts presented. Is there more you are not telling us OP? Because right now your brother looks like a self-indulgent twat.

I agree with Imperial Blether,
You need to invite him to be with family this Christmas ( and beyond).

Families do come in all shapes and sizes, but this is a young adult male that has is adrift ( excuse the unintentional pun) - no need to wonder, just be there for him ( as sibling/s) if the parent child relationship can eventually be repaired then he needs to do that on his own footing, not under pressure from you ( your DH had the right call on that)

This poor boy clearly still has the feelings of a wounded and neglected child, it is very hard to move on from that. I think all you can do is reinforce to him that moving on will be a positive thing for his health and happiness as well as for your parents and remind him that, once your parents die, there may be some feelings of guilt to deal with even if his anger is justified. After that let him make up his own mind.

...and yes, spend Christmas with him. He should not be on his own.

The OP states: "Mine his and out other sisters opinions on this were forcefully ignored and we were always told to be bloody grateful we weren?t starving like other children in the world. We all and my brother in particular were very shy and lacking in confidence and we never stood up to them."

That is NOT a healthy relationship. As soon as he was 18 he stopped contact. There are threads on here about toxic parents and people are happy to recommend other posters go NC. Now that this boy has done this, people are saying he's self-indulgent and whiney.

I don't know anyone who goes NC without a good reason - that reason may be due to poor mental health or it may just be a bloody good reason. We don't know this boy's state of mental health. I do know though that his behaviour is very unusual and he goes to great lengths to avoid his parents. I don't think any of us should be calling him self indulgent.

I don't think you ever need a 'good enough reason' to stop contact with someone. If there is someone in your life who makes you unhappy for whatever reason then keeping your distance is (or should be) perfectly fine. As adults we get to choose who we have in our lives and some people are happier away from some family relationships. Also the only people who ever know the exact dynamics of a relationship are the people in it, who's to say he doesn't have a really good reason?

I'm finding it very difficult to get my head round this one. All the bloody stunts my family pulled over the years and I still love(d) them and stayed in touch.

Maybe your parents thought taking him sailing would stop him from being such a self centred arse? Does your DB have DC's of his own?

Leave him to it.

I did ask if there were other reasons, Imperial. We have not (so far) been presented with any.

You say that we should not negate his feelings on this. But what if this is a massive over-reaction, applying a stick where none should be due, just out of a childish sense of entitlement? That would be unfair to the parents, would it not?

Wuldric

How do you think 3 siblings would have been able to have "negotiated time for sleepovers with friends, time away from boat" ? 😳

Their parents took over every weekend and holiday with their own hobby.

I agree that there could have been life around this, after school etc, but it seems like they were prescribed a ready formatted existence based on their parents' needs/ pleasure.

But the OP has said that her parents know they did the wrong thing! And do you know any 22 year old men who keep away from their family due to a sense of entitlement? Who spend Christmas alone?

I do, as it happens, know a couple of 22 year old blokes who spend christmas alone (mentoring thing). I assure you this is because of psychological issues that are deep-seated. It is terribly easy to blame the parents. Even the parents blame the parents. But what if it is not the parents' fault?

Even if it isn't the parents fault, he still doesn't have to have a relationship with them if he doesn't want to, why should anyone be forced to do that?