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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU telling my friend to man up and stop feeling sorry for himself?

136 replies

Jolleigh · 11/08/2013 00:41

On facebook Friday evening, a not too discreet friend of mine had a rant about how her OH (who I met her through and am friends with too) had gone to bed really early in a strop, leaving her to deal with a new born, a 3 year old and a very messy house, with both kids crying.

She seemed to be getting some support from their families on there and I don't particularly agree with airing dirty laundry on facebook so I messaged him instead to check everything was ok.

He got back to me today and I have to say I'm absolutely bloody livid.

He's pissed off that the government won't give them any cash towards the rent now that they've had their planned 2nd child.

I'll give you some basic background. He works in a low paid job and is determined there's no point in trying to get a better one because he has no qualifications. His other half has never worked and they say it's because of the children despite her not working before they were born either.

The reason the government won't give them any more is because between various benefits they're already getting in excess of £200 a week on top of his wage.

He's always spending money on his car and they both smoke and drink frequently, have decent phones etc... so they do have spare cash.

Myself: age 25 and have held off having a child until now as me and OH agreed we needed a better combined wage to stay comfortable. Now between us earning in excess of 50k (on similar wages to eachother) but each working bloody hard to get to where we are.

I tried to gently explain to him that most people only plan to have children when they can afford to bring them up, explained that the government doesn't have an endless pot of cash etc...

He then told me that he should be entitled to more because of 'all the foreigners who come to this country and get housed in £2m houses.'

I then told him he's bloody lucky to get the help he does and that he shouldn't have actively planned to have 2 kids that he obviously doesn't think he can afford.

He's now not talking to me.

AIBU? I have the same background as him and we've had similar opportunities in life. I made what I could of myself and he didn't. Should I have had a bit more sympathy?

OP posts:
AgentZigzag · 11/08/2013 11:47

You really love the idea you're hitting a nerve and bringing all the irrational posters out of the woodwork to prove your point.

Odd.

Once someone's been awarded a benefit it's up to them what they do with the money they get.

State enforced 'social responsibility' sounds very sinister, are you thinking about sterilization of the workshy scum maybe? Or perhaps you'd like to see them all put in the same housing estate so the government can keep a close eye on them? Easier to punish them when they buy a bottle of cider.

Gonnabmummy · 11/08/2013 11:51

I also don't think it's wrong to voice your opinion on this matter. prepares for flaming but I'm looking forward to this program, that takes the benefit system back to how it begin, it's on tomorrow.

I know someone on benefits, who I was once sitting with scratching in their purse to count the change to see if she could get some nappies, whilst smoking. She didn't have enough by about 20p which I got out of my purse whilst saying "but you can afford fags"
The benefits you get are not for fags and booze IMO

CorrineFoxworth · 11/08/2013 11:52

Great post, SelectAUserName.

Original poster
Jolleigh · 11/08/2013 11:53

Agentzigzag - you're obviously determined to try to make it look as though I'm begrudging the benefits he's entitled to. To be clear, I'm not. What I don't think is right is to keep having children you can't afford and for your first point of call to be to attempt to squeeze more out of an overburdened system rather than tightening your belt.

OP posts:
paperclipsarebetterthanstaples · 11/08/2013 11:57

I'd just like for those who are able to work to do so so they can buy their own cider if they so choose.

It fucks me off that 4 families in my street still have their curtains shut when i leave for work and are sat in the street in their jarmies drinking watching their kids play when i get home. I live in a crappy area you see because after i pay for everything that they get for nothing from my wages there's not much left.

AgentZigzag · 11/08/2013 11:58

He's entitled to the money, he's entitled to spend it on fags and booze, he's entitled to decide to have another child.

It might not be the way you'd choose to micromanage peoples private lives, it's your right to vote differently if you don't like they way the show's being run.

Original poster
Jolleigh · 11/08/2013 12:00

I can only guess you're deliberately missing the point here Agentzigzag.

OP posts:
fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 11/08/2013 12:01

I am very surprised someone would rethink their entire life just because one of their friends was a bit patronising and right wing to them on the phone tbh. You must be a powerful orator OP

Gonnabmummy · 11/08/2013 12:02

The money he would receive for child benefits is for his child/ren. Just because it is out in your bank does not mean you should spend it how you like. The money you are provided is for basic living costs.
Fags and booze are not basic and if that's how he chooses to use it so be it BUT he should not be asking for more money due to this....

If we got down to the breadline before some benefits/wages were due to come in and the choice was booze/things for car/takeaway etc or nappies/food/milk. Well it wouldn't even be a choice I know what to do each time

SofiaVagueara · 11/08/2013 12:02

He's probably right that he can't get a better job because he doesn't have any qualifications. It costs money to get more qualifications, he won't be entitled to any help getting them as he works. He may not be that bright either and might struggle with them.

You have no idea why his partner doesn't work. It might be health reasons and to be honest I'm not sure why you think his partner should be forced to go out to work when she has children.

I'm not sure why you think poor people shouldn't be allowed to have children. You've made a decision that you want to have a certain lifestyle and because of that you haven't had children yet. If you were prepared to downscale your lifestyle an live with less money like this couple have then you could have done it.

Original poster
Jolleigh · 11/08/2013 12:03

Paperclips - it's the same in my area unfortunately. I've quite literally been asked before why I bother working by the woman across the street who freely admits to never having needed a job. And despite a decent wage, I certainly can't afford a better house after being taxed through the nose.

OP posts:
Original poster
Jolleigh · 11/08/2013 12:04

Sofia - I do know why his partner doesn't work and have stated it. Did you miss the part where she's a good friend? I'm not just sat here guessing!

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 11/08/2013 12:05

Oooh the opening post has it all, doesn't it? Grin

Sulky man leaving OH to deal with crying newborn and toddler

Benefits

Planned child

Smoking

Alcohol

Racism

Yaaaaayyy!! But where's the goat, watching the 50" plasma TV?

Sad
Original poster
Jolleigh · 11/08/2013 12:09

Worra - next time I'll try to include a goat for comic purposes

OP posts:
IneedAsockamnesty · 11/08/2013 12:47

Jolleigh,

Stop telling lies, go back to the drawing board and at least come up with a plausible story.

There is not currently even ONE income related benefit that either pays out for children or gives you a protected sum for them that only pays for a certain amount of them.

They only thing that theoretically could apply is the cap but it won't with the circumstances as he works households that recieve WTC are exempt.

Original poster
Jolleigh · 11/08/2013 12:57

Lies? Since when have I broken down specific benefits? So what exactly have you decided I'm lying about?

Seems to me that you just don't like the idea of people who are receiving benefit occasionally having to accept they're not entitled to any more...

OP posts:
IneedAsockamnesty · 11/08/2013 13:07

You don't have to break them down.

Every single income/child related benefit currently has no limit on amount of children.

If his income entitles them to some benefits it would be offset against his income and he would be entitled to the same amount for each child.

gordyslovesheep · 11/08/2013 13:07

seem to me you don't like the idea of people on benefits ...

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 11/08/2013 13:09

They are entitled to it though, however much you may object

IneedAsockamnesty · 11/08/2013 13:09

You also specified rent.

Each additional child for HB/LHA has a income disregard for that child the disregard is given for each child not the first 1/2/3

Original poster
Jolleigh · 11/08/2013 13:17

He's not entitled to the extra - that's kind of the whole point. He receives what he's entitled to but still expects the purse to be open.

However it obviously makes quite a few of you feel better imagining me as some sad mare who makes up scenarios to cause arguments on mumsnet. As far as I'm concerned, that's fine. I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep pointing out that the benefits system is supposed to be a safety net rather than a lifestyle choice to those who obviously don't have a sense of social responsibility.

I've been on benefits before. I know it's hard. But living on benefits should only be covering more than the minimum if you are one of society's most vulnerable.

The system can't take much more burden.

OP posts:
IneedAsockamnesty · 11/08/2013 13:38

Hmmm if he is entitled to any help at all from housing related benefits he would get the income disregard applied to his account.

HB/LHA works a bit like this.

Rent amount.

Protected premiums/ income disregards/ none assessed income.

Actual income.

Take actual income take away all protected p's disregards none assessed income.

That leaves assessable income.

What is paid is what left after a % of the assessable income has been earmarked as a rent contribution.

An additional child would increase the protected income by about £60/£70 a week.

The protected income is the bit that is not included in income available for assessment.

zippey · 11/08/2013 14:51

Good to see your friend has wised up, but blaming foreigners for your troubles is exactly how nazi germany started.

As for benefits, we have a good system here for trying to help the most needy in society. There are some people who will try and play the system but these people are a minority.

Surely most people get benefits these days, even child benefits or tax credits?

Original poster
Jolleigh · 11/08/2013 15:16

Hi zippey. Do you think the balance has tipped to most now? I'd obviously need to look a bit more into that but my first comment on that is: is it any wonder the system is overburdened when most people are entitled to help from it?

OP posts:
Pigsmummy · 11/08/2013 15:20

Who says that bankers don't work hard? The ones that I know work hard and put in long hours. The first train to London here is at 0540 and the vast majority of people using it are bankers who won't be getting a train back until 7pm at the earliest.