AIBU telling my friend to man up and stop feeling sorry for himself?

[Jolleigh]

On facebook Friday evening, a not too discreet friend of mine had a rant about how her OH (who I met her through and am friends with too) had gone to bed really early in a strop, leaving her to deal with a new born, a 3 year old and a very messy house, with both kids crying.

She seemed to be getting some support from their families on there and I don't particularly agree with airing dirty laundry on facebook so I messaged him instead to check everything was ok.

He got back to me today and I have to say I'm absolutely bloody livid.

He's pissed off that the government won't give them any cash towards the rent now that they've had their planned 2nd child.

I'll give you some basic background. He works in a low paid job and is determined there's no point in trying to get a better one because he has no qualifications. His other half has never worked and they say it's because of the children despite her not working before they were born either.

The reason the government won't give them any more is because between various benefits they're already getting in excess of £200 a week on top of his wage.

He's always spending money on his car and they both smoke and drink frequently, have decent phones etc... so they do have spare cash.

Myself: age 25 and have held off having a child until now as me and OH agreed we needed a better combined wage to stay comfortable. Now between us earning in excess of 50k (on similar wages to eachother) but each working bloody hard to get to where we are.

I tried to gently explain to him that most people only plan to have children when they can afford to bring them up, explained that the government doesn't have an endless pot of cash etc...

He then told me that he should be entitled to more because of 'all the foreigners who come to this country and get housed in £2m houses.'

I then told him he's bloody lucky to get the help he does and that he shouldn't have actively planned to have 2 kids that he obviously doesn't think he can afford.

He's now not talking to me.

AIBU? I have the same background as him and we've had similar opportunities in life. I made what I could of myself and he didn't. Should I have had a bit more sympathy?

I would take up the cause, but I'm too worried about people not getting enough to smoke alcohol to eat when they're on benefits.

Or their, even as yet unborn, children.

It seems I am NBU...

The friend dropped his kids off this morning (I take them for a few hours on Sundays to give him and his OH a bit of aline time). I then received a heart felt apology...

Turns out after my outburst at him, he sat and did a break down of his finances and he hadn't realised he was spending hundreds each month working on his car (non essentials like upgrading speakers etc...). He'd been having a strop because it had looked like everything that could be done to improve their situation was down to him.

So he's apologised for the appalling behaviour and thanked me for the kick up the arse. He then discussed the possibility of his OH getting a part time job to ease the burden a bit (though I did tell him not to mention it for at least a few months with her being home with the newborn). Obviously still uneasy about the racism though.

Overall, feel a lot better about it.

Though I have to say, I have learned not to even mention benefits on MN unless you receive them...because if you don't, it's obviously a benefit bashing thread. Find it hilarious that people here seem to think the pot fills itself and only those receiving benefits can talk about them. Sod the tax payer...they're all living in Lala Land and don't know what it's like to me hard up. (I'll point out my blatent sarcasm there).

Oh dear.

And it was all a dream...

You do realise that people who work in low paid jobs and receive benefits also pay tax don't you?

Is this like some Government sponsored fable?

'And then we all lived happily ever after thanks to our Tory chums"

Very aware of that...I was more making a point about this being dubbed a benefit bashing thread.

...obviously now this is a 'fable'. Because someone couldn't possibly have apologised for a racist outburst.

Op i think you are nbu - for some reason on mn we're allowed to express views on personal things like bf, relationships, in laws etc but not benefits and any post that mentions benefits is 'bashing'

Bollocks - our country is in a mess and people shouldn't be making decisions to have lifestyles they can't afford because those decisions affect us all. Therefore we should all be entitled to have an opinion on them.

I hate all the 'it's my right' attitudes - it boils my piss. I've deleted lots of 'friends' from Facebook because of their boring moans about 'the council are disgraceful for not giving me a bigger house' 'I'm pissed off at the dole for making me go on a course'

Because like you op i am a realist. As a country we cannot afford for people to continue having baby after baby that they can't support. Argue that people have rights to have kids if you like but if you sit on that side of the fence then you need to explain where we get the money from because England is skint.

The country is in a mess because of a very greedy minority of people and corporations who don't pay as much tax as they should and banks handing out millions in bonuses to people who don't particularly work very hard.

And a government that wastes billions on Trident.

Youthecat. Those companies are a minority. People relying on benefits is amassive problem. The government is trying to deal with i because we cannot sustain it. You can't dismiss people claiming as not being an issue just because some companies are causing a problem too.

Good to see someone else who's not afraid to say what needs saying paperclips.

It's a bit like the twilight zone in this place...you can tell someone to leave their OH and tear their relationship apart without offending them, but mention benefits and suddenly everyone is up in arms and you have no right to comment because you don't receive them / you've done well for yourself / you obviously don't know what it's like / any mention of someone handling the money they receive better makes me a tory / insert other 'you have no right' comment here.

The only way to deal with it is to pay people a living wage.

How can you expect someone working for minimum wage to survive on that money? And don't tell me they should get a better job because it just isn't feasible and there aren't many jobs. What would we do without those minimum wage jobs? Who would manufacture stuff? Who would do the cleaning?

And the tax the companies account for is much more than benefits paod out.

Bit of an imbalance there.

YANBU. Can't understand why it is that people so thoughtful and insightful about most topics on MN, but when it comes to benefits there's an automatic 'attack is the best form of defence' mentality on any poster who makes any form of criticism whatsoever.

*paid

Eachandeveryhighway - I'm so relieved the day light is bringing out the rational people! Was despairing about how few there seemed to be last night!

did Bobby Ewing emerge out of your show at the same time?

Youthecat - at no point was I saying he doesn't need the benefits he receives. What I'm saying is that the system is a safety net and he shouldn't have planned to rely on it to pay for his children and he certainly shouldn't think the government should automatically give him more because he's spending too much on his hobby.

those companies are the minority

Hahahahahahaha.yeah right. I have never heard of a company that doesn't 'manage its tax and VAT'

Opens thread and realises she's just stumbled into a school playground.
Op yanbu

Awww it's lovely your friend doesn't mind you thinking you have the right to judge him on what he does with his money. I'm sure his turning over a new leaf must be make you feel so smug fulfilled that you've done your duty to the country and its economic position in the world.

It is a persons right to receive a benefit they're entitled to, and unless we're governed by China, it's not the states place to say how many children a couple can decide to have.

Do you normally think only the people who agree with you are rational OP?

YANBU!

Why Agentzigzag? Do you think it's nobody else's business what happens to the money in the public pot? Because I personally think the rational point of view is that this is a democracy so we're all entitled to our say in how it's spent.

And strictly speaking, I'd much rather there was something in place to enforce a certain level of social responsibility among the masses and stop people planning to bring further children into the world when they're incapable of funding the ones they have and have no plan to take over the responsibility of paying for them.

But obviously I'm hitting too many raw nerves by making that particular point.

The reason so many threads go like this is because the majority of posters feel that a society is judged by how it deals with its weakest and most vulnerable members. We know that the majority of "benefit claimants" are pensioners and tax payers, that as a proportion, the amount of benefit fraud is tiny (and would be offset entirely by tightening some of the corporate tax law loopholes) and that a number of people are caught in a benefits trap because of the impossibility of living on minimum wage (depending on circumstances). We understand the difference between "us" and "them" can be a change in our employer's policy or our husband walking out. We know that generations of benefit-dependent communities grew up in the wake of the decimation of manufacturing and that it requires understanding of the 'why' and has a supportive 'how' to bring about the required cultural change, not a stick with no carrot. We understand and accept that a comparative handful of people playing the system and getting something they're not entitled to is the price of the genuinely entitled receiving the support they need, and that rather than lump the genuinely needy in with the so-called cheats, the system should have an efficient mechanism for distinguishing fraud.

I would rather live in a society where a few people get something for nothing, even if the cost of that comes out of my taxes, than in one where terminally ill cancer patients are assessed as 'fit for work' to shave a few pounds off the DLA bill.

OP I would feel the same as you, regardless of what you earn!

Myself and dp both have low paid full time jobs but we work hard to have what we do. We know people who are of the 'I get the same money now as I would if I did work' and I choose to ignore them even if it boils my piss

Shame he was your friend but if that's really how he is and this is offending you. I would just remove him from your friends and carry on and no you shouldn't be sympathetic towards him!

Yes - lots of companies manage their tax. It's wronged needs to be addressed but that does not mean someone can say 'that big company doesn't pay enough tax so i will claim benefits and plan never to work'
Some people live in ivory towers on here and have never met people who knowingly abuse the benefit systems.