to think this child is too old to be exposing himself?

[JenniBoo]

Bit of a back story... was delighted when a young family bought the house next door. After the previous elderly couple (who would complain about noise and balls going over the wall etc.,) I thought another young family would be a breath of fresh air and that their boys (8, 5 and 3) would play with my daughters (3yrs and 3 mths).

The first hint that they were not our sort of people became apparent almost immediately. They are both heavy smokers - they must smoke at least a pack a day - but instead of doing it in their house, they (and their friends) congregate on the porch- the smell wafts across into our garden and through the kitchen window. One day it was so bad, you could smell it in my baby's bedroom on the floor above! I asked them politely if they would mind smoking indoors or at the end of their garden - but they were completely unapologetic and said they couldn't do that because in the house if might affect THEIR children - and that at the end of the garden, they would get wet!

She seems to let her kids run wild - she is never in the garden with them, and the noise is something else. The other day I had to complain because they were throwing stones at each other - one flew across into our garden narrowly missing my baby, who was sleeping in the pram. I went across to complain but the mother couldn't have cared less. She lined them up and made them apologize, but she was all "boys will be boys" and you could tell she wasn't really sorry.

Today has been the final straw though. I came out to find both the younger boys exposing themselves to my older daughter. They had climbed onto their trampoline and were waving them at her. The older boy was there too, but was just laughing. I went round to the mother and told her. . The other mother told me I was "being stupid" and that "they are just little boys" and that I should "get over myself".

I don't think a 5 year old should be getting his willy out in public. Surely if he did that in the class at school he would be in huge trouble? Am I being unreasonable?

Brilliant post by sarahandfuck, I think that accurately sums the whole thing up.

OP, you've become sensitised to them and will probably now be looking for any little perceived transgression.

Good luck on Friday, if I were them I'd be looking forward to giving you a bit of a dressing down. You shall need to employ all of your charm to make things end on a positive note. I'd not advocate calling them any of the names that you have used on here. You are, after all, one of the adults involved and they are children.

funnily enough, if the OP had said the boys were running around naked I would have thought 'relax, they're only little' but calling for the little girl to look then waving their willies at her is just a bit, well, ewww. Not that I think there is anything sinister in it, they are only children, just that I think that with small children you need to start as you mean to go on. So if you wouldn't tolerate an 8 year old doing it, then why not start when he is 3 and say 'no, don't do that'

This is a mad old thread, its giving me the urge to get on a trampoline with my knockers out, whilst smoking a lambert.

Just wanted to add. Have u thought worse case senerio op that this mum is struggling, she feel she cant ask for help because she chose to have these children and be judged for not coping (rightly by your attitude). You dress her down, tell her she is a crap mum on friday that her boys are horrible and how your children are so much better behaved. If she is having problems would u not worry that your judgement could tip her over the edge?

watch out for what bouncer too near the lambert

You know OP. You may find you have more in common with those little kids than you think. I mean, 3 and 5 year olds also change their story when things aint going their way

PS I LOVED the extra touch about home made scones and jam, over egging it slightly but still vair good

I would also like to know at one point a child getting its penis out and deliberately showing it to female children of a similar age becomes unacceptable.

Cos you see, I have always brought up my own son to think it was more or less always unacceptable.

JustBecause - to 5 year olds, a willy is just a very silly part of the body, in common with bottoms & tummies and in common with the various gases emitted from some of those parts of the body. They wave it about a bit, you tell them it's a private thing and to keep it to themselves (as much for their protection as for the protection of other people's sensibilities, IMO), it's no big deal over and above that. As children near puberty, most don't need telling to keep it private. With bodily changes and the beginnings of sexual awareness comes a certain amount of embarrassment. They probably also no longer want it to be referred to as a willy.

Most infant school age willy wigglers do not go on to become sexual predators. There's about 40,000 adults on the sexual offenders register. That might sound a lot, but it's a tiny proportion of the adult male population in comparison to the percentage of small boys who find the wobbly and farty parts of their body hilarious.

The "freshly-baked scones and home-made jam" was definitely the best bit from the OP so far, but my favourite reply was HaroldLloyd's

It would be interesting to work put how the little girl could see, if she is average height for a three yr old, even with the boys on am adult sized trampoline, they wouldn't be that visible over a 5ft fence.

Quite. They would have had to jump high enough that their willies achieved an elevation of about 7' in order to be clearly visible to a typical standing 3yo over a 5' fence! That's quite a feat whilst pulling your shorts down.

With all due respect, OP, my DS run around naked in the back garden all the time. They are 2 and 8 (yes, 8). Our neighbours have small girls and have never complained.

I would be horrified if someone suggested that I punish my DS for clowning around showing his willy in our back garden. Would I have a chat with him about what is appropriate? Yes. Would I punish him? Absolutely not.

Nudity at that age is absolutely fine and nothing to be ashamed of. How prudish are you?

Jenni, what did your previous neighbours complain about and how did you deal with their complaints?

I agree, 5 is too old for that type of behaviour, I'd be seriously shocked if my 5 year old exposed himself to the neighbours.

Put up a high fence & hope they move.

OMG OP, so those horrid unruly boys that have caused your anxiety were yelling abuse and thrusting their private parts at your daughter while the mother looked on and cheered?!

---what I'm expecting the next update to be. And now I really am hiding the thread.

Have you ever considered OP, that if you have anxiety issues then your perception may be a little skewed?

But the boys weren't running round naked were they? They pulled their shorts down deliberately to show their willies to the little girl. That is a very different thing. Even in adults, a nudist beach will have people walking round in the nude, obviously but if a man walked up to a woman and deliberately exposed himself to her the implication would be different, even if they were still on the same beach. I don't think that children should be made self conscious about their bodies but I do think that a conversation about appropriate behaviour would have been in order. Who knows, maybe the mother has since had that conversation, out of the earshot of the OP.

"But is isn't about what the boys understand."

Yes it is, because that's what the OP asked in her title and very first post. Is he too old to be doing this, and should he understand that it's not acceptable at his age?

His older brother seems to understand, as he didn't join in, the two younger ones are still just that little bit too young as yet.

"They don't have to understand that waving willies at people is offensive for it to be offensive, and for their parents to tell them so."

Which they more than likely did do after the OP left. I think it's fair to assume they did, since they spoke to them over the stone throwing and since the older boy is already aware.

my ds at five used to think it hilarious to flash it's all about the reaction they get ds would call mummy and I stolen around and there he is flashing and giggling. I would just tell him to put it away. unfortunately boys are very different to girls and find Willy wagling very funny at a young age and are more boisterous in playing they sound like boys to me.

'They pulled their shorts down deliberately to show their willies to the little girl' That is according to the OP who wasn't even there when it happened. Also remember the 5ft fence, the kids could hardly see each other. Maybe the boys were showing their willies to each other and tried to engage the girl in their game.
OP already changed the stone throwing incident to aiming it at her baby.

i think you need to get over yourself!!!

The first hint that they were not our sort of people became apparent almost immediately

If they were not your sort of people why would you take scones and jam round?

Brilliant post Sarah , it says all that needs to be said.

I don't understand all the fuss about the scones and jam? Isn't it a neighbourly sort of thing to do, that lots of people would do too? I bake a lot, and there's only the 3 of us - well up until now - and DD2 won't be eating for a bit!, so I will often take half a chocolate cake or a half a dozen scones to a neighbour. Lots of the houses in the street have older people, and if you're living on your own, I think it's especially nice for someone to drop in with a slab of chocolate cake or something. I'm not saying I was wonderful or special or anything to bring over scones - but I do think I'm quite a neighbourly person.

Anyway, the stone throwing telling off was obviously not very effective. Dropped some shopping in for my neighbour when I got back this evening, and what do you know... the lovely boys next door were lobbing stones over his wall today. (He is their immediate neighbour on the other side). He came out and told them not to play like that - and they apparently told him that he couldn't tell them what to do. He was just debating whehter to make a fuss when one hit the greenhouse and cracked a pane. Mother was apparently apologetic and says her husband will replace the glass.

It sounds like though, from what everyone here is saying, if you've got the sort of children that throw stones at people/around, they probably are too far gone to listen to you when you tell them off. It is scary, because how can I leave my children to play in their own back garden if this sort of thing is going to happen?

Quite. They would have had to jump high enough that their willies achieved an elevation of about 7' in order to be clearly visible to a typical standing 3yo over a 5' fence! That's quite a feat whilst pulling your shorts down.

I went out and check, getting down to her height - she could see. The heights don't add up like people suggest because the whole street is on a hill. Our garden is at a lower level than there's, and their trampoline is on a raised border again. I should add they were not playing on the trampoline - they were using it as something to climb on, to get suffcient height to flash my daughter. I use the flash, becasue that is what they were doing - ie. gaining her attention, then pulling their shorts down to show her their penises. That is very different from playing in the nude and not bothering her. I have no problem with nudity at all.

You don't you ,move to the isolated mansion you clearly think you deserve