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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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to think this child is too old to be exposing himself?

999 replies

JenniBoo · 05/08/2013 15:08

Bit of a back story... was delighted when a young family bought the house next door. After the previous elderly couple (who would complain about noise and balls going over the wall etc.,) I thought another young family would be a breath of fresh air and that their boys (8, 5 and 3) would play with my daughters (3yrs and 3 mths).

The first hint that they were not our sort of people became apparent almost immediately. They are both heavy smokers - they must smoke at least a pack a day - but instead of doing it in their house, they (and their friends) congregate on the porch- the smell wafts across into our garden and through the kitchen window. One day it was so bad, you could smell it in my baby's bedroom on the floor above! I asked them politely if they would mind smoking indoors or at the end of their garden - but they were completely unapologetic and said they couldn't do that because in the house if might affect THEIR children - and that at the end of the garden, they would get wet!

She seems to let her kids run wild - she is never in the garden with them, and the noise is something else. The other day I had to complain because they were throwing stones at each other - one flew across into our garden narrowly missing my baby, who was sleeping in the pram. I went across to complain but the mother couldn't have cared less. She lined them up and made them apologize, but she was all "boys will be boys" and you could tell she wasn't really sorry.

Today has been the final straw though. I came out to find both the younger boys exposing themselves to my older daughter. They had climbed onto their trampoline and were waving them at her. The older boy was there too, but was just laughing. I went round to the mother and told her. . The other mother told me I was "being stupid" and that "they are just little boys" and that I should "get over myself".

I don't think a 5 year old should be getting his willy out in public. Surely if he did that in the class at school he would be in huge trouble? Am I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
NandH · 06/08/2013 11:42

Ermm I wouldn't be amussed with boys waving their dicks at my daughter, neither would I be happy with then throwing stones over the fence! What is with people thinking this is ok? ITS NOT! ... Would it be ok for ops daughter is be pulling her skirt down and touching herself so the boys could see! Pfffttt!

Op you havnt over reacted, maybe a little with the smoking thing but not the rest!

Whack a huge fence/tree/hedge up along the side of your boundary to block these people out!

NandH · 06/08/2013 11:44

Dione ...are you kidding??? ... Are you the neighbour?

sameoldIggi · 06/08/2013 11:50

Can the OP confirm that since the neighbour told off her children, there have been NO stones thrown over the fence? So sounds like the mother is effective in controlling them rather than the opposite? Obviously she is at fault for not thinking to say "no stone-throwing, and no willy-waggling on the trampolene either" Hmm
Am so wishing the other mum was a mumsnetter..

hatsybatsy · 06/08/2013 11:54

why do people keep attributing sexual motives to little boys waving their willies around?

I admit I would not be keen about neighbours kids doing this but to be honest, my children, sitting on the grass in my garden would not be able to see them on their trampoline - as THIS IS NOT PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE.

OP saw these little boys and is putting all her angst onto her daughter. Her daughter may have been upset by the shouting but unless she was also jumping higher than the 5 foot ence, i fail to see how she could have seen what was going on.

sameoldIggi · 06/08/2013 11:57

Would it be ok for ops daughter is be pulling her skirt down and touching herself so the boys could see! Pfffttt! - NandH, what an idiotic thing to say.
Where the boys touching themselves?
Wiggling is not masturbation. Maybe someone should draw you a diagram.

digerd · 06/08/2013 11:59

I remember being at a boy's house in the garden and him suddenly saying " Don't look as I'm going to have a wee in the gully". The good olden days when little boys were brought up "proper". I think we were 7 - so long ago.

hatsybatsy · 06/08/2013 12:00

exactly sameoldIggi - not the same at all.

the comparison would be to a litle girl showing her bum - and although this might not be 'charming', it would make most 3 year olds laugh. and IMO would be acceptable in her own back garden.

insanityscratching · 06/08/2013 12:06

On our cul de sac is a house with at one time seven boys (they are growing up fast) I wouldn't say their parents were unable to control them more that much of the time it was crowd control and not always brilliantly successful and I'd say some of them were quite a handful. We haven't had any trouble from any of them not least because we were always friendly to the boys and we didn't shoo them away when they ventured at the front of our house.They have cleared our paths of snow and washed cars for pocket money for us and put bins out when we have been away. Another neighbour who complained each time one of them ventured within ten feet of his car has been subject to many petty annoyances purely because any attention good or bad is seen as worth it. In five years time these boys will be 13,10 and 8 and will have far more freedom and cunning to wind you up, letting them see that at 3,5 and 8 you are a good target for their fun isn't the brightest idea IMO

5madthings · 06/08/2013 12:08

It would be interesting to work put how the little girl could see, if she is average height for a three yr old, even with the boys on am adult sized trampoline, they wouldn't be that visible over a 5ft fence.

,y elder three 13, 11 and 8 can jump quite high on the trampoline so if they were naked (unlikely for the elder two!) You may see a flash of w t obviously when jumping you go up and um down so its literally just a flash. My five year old couldn't jump high enough for the neighbors to see his willy (he so frequently naked in the garden) ditto my two year old.

We have a climbigm frame, my naked children are visible from the 'house' bit on the top of that. They often chat to the kids in the garden next door or behind, but of they were being silly/rude/annoying I tell them to stop.

One storm throwing incident for which they apologized and a bit of nudity does not mean they are 'little shits' (vile way to describe children) or that they are 'running riot'.

Op maybe you could post a pic of the view from your back garden so we could visualize the situation/see how your daughter could see the naked boys?!!

DioneTheDiabolist · 06/08/2013 12:18

No NandH, I am neither kidding, nor am I the neighbour.

crunchbag · 06/08/2013 12:20

5mad, I think we have more or less established that it is most likely that indeed the DD saw nothing of it.(thanks to Westie's willy clearance theory) OP admitted that she herself saw it but has avoided answering what her DD could see.

I am sure there was some kind of conversation through the fence between the children and the boys probably got a bit too rowdy for the DD and she got upset. OP came down, saw the naked boys and that justified her opinion of the parents.

FrussoHathor · 06/08/2013 12:24

The children don't listen to the mother and are running riot. running riot? They are children playing in their own garden! My DC "run riot" in my garden, best and safest place for them to do it IMO.

5madthings · 06/08/2013 12:24

Well I was thinking that but I am nosey, a phit of the garden would add to the drama Grin

Seriously tho kids naked in a garden, not an issue. We have pur paddling pool in the front garden (in quiet cul de sac) and my little ones go naked in there. No complaints from neighbors, but then my cul de sac is very quiet and the kind where kids all play out on bikes and scooters Adm even with balls Shock which also appears to be another mnet NO NO it seems.

SarahAndFuck · 06/08/2013 12:25

"Op you havnt over reacted, maybe a little with the smoking thing but not the rest!"

This is what I was getting at earlier, when I said that the problems with neighbours often start because everyone has a different idea of what can be classed as quiet enjoyment and nobody thinks they are as bad as the people at the other side of the fence.

Nobody has agreed that the stone throwing was okay, but people have picked up on the OP changing her story by saying first that the boys were throwing stones at each other and then that they were throwing stones at her baby. They weren't throwing stones at the baby, although the end result could still have been very serious if one had hit the baby. Nobody is disputing that but the OP shouldn't change the story to make it sound worse than it is.

The OP complained, the mother lined the boys up and had them apologise. And nothing else has been thrown over the fence since then. So here, the parents have effectively controlled their sons and their behaviour, something the OP says they can't do, yet they clearly have.

You say the OP has overreacted at the smoke in her house but plenty of other people have said that would be the bit that bothered them too, and be the main reason they would have for complaining.

And people are also divided over the younger boys showing their penises to the OP's DD, who probably couldn't even see them. The OP has changed her story there as well, from saying the boys called her DD's name to saying they shouted abuse at her.

And she's also said that her daughter would cry at just the name calling, so she's not even sure if her DD saw the penises. She could have just been crying because two boys she doesn't like, boys she will have realised her mother doesn't like, one of which hit her (and again nobody has said that was okay) called her name.

Children, boys and girls, often do go through these stages of being interested in their genitals. The OP's question, her very reason for starting this AIBU was to ask if at five years old this boy is too old and should know better. And the resounding answer was no. Boys and girls of this age are still discovering themselves, their similarities and differences.

The eight year old didn't join in. He's clearly reached the age when he feels too old to join in with the younger boys and he's being raised by the same parents who the OP feels can't control the younger two. The five year old will get there too and it's not like they are there with their penis's out every time the OP sets foot in the garden. Like the stone throwing, it's a one off annoyance that the parents have probably dealt with, just not to the OP's satisfaction since she wants then to be in ''huge trouble" with "punishments".

Yes it has annoyed the OP but it wouldn't, at that very young age, annoy everybody. And I do believe the boys parents should have a quiet word and tell them not to annoy the neighbours by using the trampoline to see over the fence, either to call out or to try and show their willies to her Hmm

But all this nonsense about "exposing themselves" and "what would happen if a little girl played with herself while the neighbours watched" is just making an annoying but innocent situation worse. That sort of language and all this asking "but when will they stop - when they are fifty?" hysteria is making the boys out to be budding sex offenders when at this age they are not even capable of 'playing with themselves' in the way most adults understand it.

I suspect what has annoyed the OP more than the penis's is the fact that the mother has finally had enough of her complaining about everything and told her where to go.

Which I cannot blame her for because if she went there talking about the boys "exposing themselves" to her daughters the mother probably heard the same sexualised language as most people here and found it just as ridiculous. And she's probably well aware that the OP feels they are not "her sort of people" because you can't hide an attitude like that.

I'm sure she still had a word with the boys after the OP had gone, because she has done so before about the stone. But the OP is pissed off because she feels that their apologies are not sincere enough and a word is not as good as huge trouble and punishments.

ZutAlorsDidier · 06/08/2013 12:30

But is isn't about what the boys understand.
They don't have to understand that waving willies at people is offensive for it to be offensive, and for their parents to tell them so.

ilovesooty · 06/08/2013 12:35

Sarah great post.

crunchbag · 06/08/2013 12:37

A picture of the garden would be great, but OP might have to move the climbing frame first Grin

Another thought, maybe OP's dd was peeking through those little holes most fences have

toffeelolly · 06/08/2013 12:40

Ok I really feel so sorry for your new neighbours ,their little boy"s cannot even play in peace in their OWN GARDEN. Also feel for your poor children , you sound like you do not like little boy's much(so sad) . I have two boy's and so much fun, have one girl, and when you have lots of little girls together they can be very bitchy and harder work than little boys, and by the way by sending your little girl to a all girls school just you wait a few years , and maybe you will think twice before you call other children nasty names .You cannot wrap your child up in cotton wool forever it"s just not healthy. Really do feel for your poor neighbours.

SoniaGluck · 06/08/2013 12:42

Didier How exactly is it offensive, if it isn't sexual? Which, in this case, it obviously isn't.

Someone upthread said that for small boys it's just like waving an arm or something.

These are children. It would be offensive in a older boy or a teen, I grant you, but these boys are 3 and 5.

DioneTheDiabolist · 06/08/2013 12:49

I do not find small childrens' bodies offensive. In fact I do not find the human body offensive at all.

Sexual abuse and sexual assault are offensive, but these boys are not sex abusers or deviants.

toffeelolly · 06/08/2013 12:56

All the op needed to do was ignore it and her child 3yrs most likely did not even bother her. Still have to laugh just thinking about this silly woman. Is it a wind up?

mumofweeboys · 06/08/2013 13:44

Im getting basically you want the mother to scream and shout at the boys and invoke super harsh punishments in front of you and then grovel for your forgiveness. Their behaviour was wrong and who is to say the mother didn't punish her boys just not in front of you.

As said earlier my boys were throwing stones. I had them on the thinking spot several times then ended up bringing them in as they continued to throw stones. They ended up with no tv that night. Next day they were warned they would be brought in so what did they do, yep throw more stones.

My point is that you can discipline the child but doesn't stop them doing it again. I have 3 young terrors and a friend with your attitude ( and one girl) she got shock of her life when she babysat for me as she couldnt cope with the chaos and noise. She now admits that Im probably much stricter parent then her but then her daughter isn't constantly testing the boundaries.

Your obviously annoyed at them with the smoking and their response so now everything has your back up.

Notimpressedhm · 06/08/2013 13:45

It is highly inappropriate at best, If they were were just playing naked in their own garden fine fair enough but to actually pull your shorts down and wave it at somebody? They need to be taught some respect plus you never know who is watching just an all round no no.

ZutAlorsDidier · 06/08/2013 13:50

No, little children's bodies are not offensive. It is the gesture of waving a willy at someone that is. They are learning about "rude" in whatever sense and are practising being rude because they think it is funny. some posters think the best way to discourage this is to ignore it, well maybe, but implicit within that position is the recognition that it is not something to encourage. People are pretending that anyone who doesn't like it is:

objecting to naked play in the garden
thinks they are sex offenders
doesn't understand that it is something lots of little boys are inclined to do

none of the above apply

nennypops · 06/08/2013 13:51

She could have just been crying because two boys she doesn't like, boys she will have realised her mother doesn't like, one of which hit her (and again nobody has said that was okay) called her name.

Tbh, I'm not convinced about that one. OP only introduced this one for the first time well into the thread, after the responses were going against her, at around the time she also introduced for the first time the claim that the boys were shouting at dd and deliberately threw the stone at the baby. It seems to me inexplicable that she gets so worked up about the willy waving yet didn't see fit to mention the alleged hitting in the original message.

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