Not to use exP's middle name for baby? ('IL' problem, who is BU?)

[chesterberry]

I?m 38 weeks pregnant. As a bit of background exP and I were together 3 years before we found out (baby was not planned). On finding out I was pregnant he first tried to force me into an abortion and later made threats towards me and the baby. That caused us to split and he now maintains the baby is not his as we were using contraception.

I had a good relationship with exP's parents and over the 3 years we were together went to numerous family occasions and have stayed with them several times. His mother and I have maintained contact, mainly through facebook, and she is excited about baby (first grandchild). She has expressed how disappointed she is with her son and is planning on visiting with exP's sister when baby is born. I haven't been in contact with exP's father and didn't really know what his feelings are about the baby or the situation.

Anyway, all was fine until yesterday ExP's mother messaged me about baby and in message asked if I had decided on names yet. I said I had a few names in mind although still not sure but had decided on the middle name for both a boy and girl. The middle names I have chosen are both meaningful (grandmother's name or late uncle's name). I told ExP'sM the names I've chosen and why. She then got a bit funny and said, "Oh, you're not using [ExP's middle name] then?"

ExP's middle name is a family middle name which is passed down through oldest son - his father has that middle name as did grandfather etc. I knew this but it never occurred to me to use this middle name as ExP doesn't see baby as his (although s/he is) and has no interest in the baby or being a father. However his mother has now been messaging telling me how upset exP's father is that I won't use the name and that it's unfair of me not to carry on the tradition etc as it makes it look like I'm shunning baby's paternal side and they want to be involved even if exP doesn't.

This isn't the case at all. I have always maintained that I will ensure grandparents are involved where they want to be and have been in contact with exP's mother throughout pregnancy. However, I do not really feel comfortable with using exP's middle name if my child is a boy. I'm not trying to shun baby's grandfather but I do feel that, as ex is uninterested in baby and may not even acknowledge baby as his child it would be unfair on both baby and ex-partner to use his middle name. But his parents maintain that it is oldest son and that if my baby is a boy (which I am now beginning to hope it isn't) tradition dictates baby has family middle name.

If baby is a boy he could of course have two middle names, the one I've chosen and exP's family name, but for so many reasons I really don't want to. ExP really hurt me and although on surface I may be coping I miss him and I am terrified about being a single mum, I admit part of me feels he just doesn't deserve baby to have his family middle name, even if it will upset grandparents. I'm also now worried about telling them baby will have my surname and starting to regret being so keen to allow his parents to be involved.

So, am I being totally unfair and unreasonable towards ExP's parents, and particularly, father on this issue? Or are they being unreasonable in wanting me to use family name when their son refuses to be involved? I am really not sure and I want to do the right thing by them, but also want to do right thing by myself and baby. Thanks and sorry this is so long.

... Obviously if you come to a proper understanding before the birth, that's different, but you don't want to be messed around once the baby is here.

Are you applying for child support?

I think you would be totally reasonable not to use the family name, however, if your ExP's parents are good people and will be good grandparents to the baby, I see the argument for using the name, its hard work bringing up a baby on your own, and if they are prepared to have some input it might be useful - so good to keep them happy?

Of course, if you never want to see them again or don't care so much about them being upset don't bother. Its only an extra middle name - on birth certificate only but don't need to include it eg on school applications or anything else (apart from maybe passport). And your ex P could use it again if he had another son.

I do not think you should put him on the birth certificate. It invites trouble in the future. I think he should have no part in it, should not be at registration at all.

I would tell the PIL of all that he did and threatened to do. Let them know just what kind of a person he is.

Here's what I think they think: that the baby will have middle name they want, dad will be on birth certificate, and that baby will have his surname.

He can apply for PR if not on the birth certificate but that's a lot more effort than just turning up for five minutes to register the baby. The fact it's so much effort might prevent any caving in if his parents apply the pressure.

Tell the ex PILs that you understand they are unhappy, but that they are putting pressure on the wrong person. If your exP was more reasonable, you would be more inclined to include his family name as one of your DC's names.

It is traditional for a couple to marry and bring up a child together. As that isn't going to happen, it looks like tradition has flown out the window.

Whether to invite him to be on the birth certificate is something I have been losing sleep over, to be honest. I would, in all honesty, prefer him not to be on it. However it has been suggested to me that if I don't offer him the chance to register the birth with me he might turn around in 2 years, wanting access to his son, and use it against me by saying I denied him the chance to be on it. If I offer him the chance and he doesn't take it then at least I have done the right thing and he can't turn around later and say that I denied him the opportunity to be recognised as the baby's father.

I don't think he will want to travel the 300 miles in order to register the birth being as he is still, as far as I know, denying the baby is anything to do with him. I don't think he realises he needs to be there to be put on the birth certificate and be recognised as the father or has thought about his parental rights. I guess there is a risk his parents will try and encourage him to do so but I don't plan on discussing the registration with them - I will merely contact him to inform him of the usual birth things (baby's name, weight, gender etc) and say to get in contact asap if he wishes to attend when I register the birth. I won't tell him that if he doesn't attend he won't be on the certificate etc.

In regards to the middle-name I messaged ex's mother earlier to explain that I wasn't keen to use ex's middle name and that, as baby might be a girl, I'd prefer not to discuss it now and she was nice in her reply saying she understood that I might want to think on it but that ex's father will be really pleased if I do choose to use it. She then moved subject on, asking some questions about whether I have the bedroom etc ready. So for now I think that the middle-name subject has been dropped, although obviously if baby is a boy then I will have to make a decision bearing in mind it clearly means a lot to them. I'm kind of hoping when baby is born everybody will just be so bowled over with how lovely I'm sure s/he will be that stuff like this will just seem trivial.

I think they have a cheek even asking you to consider using THEIR choice of name. That doesn't sound like the action of "nice" people but controlling ones who like to get their own way.
Neither set of parents put any pressure on my ex and I wrt "family" names. That is nice behaviour, she shouldn't have mentioned names at all.

What does it matter what he turns round and says to you in 2 years time? You just reply that had he shown any interest in the baby you'd have invited him and remind him of his comments.
If he does wish to behave like a father to this child in the future then you can consider it then. If he's willing to be emotionslly and financially supportive to your child then you don't have to be obstructive.
I think if he contacts you and asks you about registering the birth then you should tell him but if he doesn't bother enquiring then if he moans in future you just tell him you'd have told him if he'd bothered to ask about it.
If you think it would be better for your child in the future to see 2 parents named on the birth certificate then you could do it for that reason.

My view might not be popular, but I wouldn't tell your Ex anything. I would go NC. I wouldn't tell him when you go into labour, when you give birth, the sex of the baby - absolutely no information whatsoever. If he is maintaining the position that he is not the father, why keep him in the loop?

If he wants to be involved, he knows where you are and how to get in contact. If you decide to ask for child support, be prepared for Ex to demand a paternity test. He may do this to embarrass you and to delay the payment of support. Be prepared for the fallout when he is confirmed as the father. He won't take the news well.

Don't offer him anything. He doesn't deserve your kindness he is not a nice person. You sound like you are going to be a terrific Mum and you don't need this asshole in your life. Don't let him in. You know it won't end well.

Agree - I don't think it will make any difference to an application for contact or whatever - he knows the baby is coming, if he makes nO effort to find out about registration, that's his failing, not yours.

Given what he's said to you, your reasonable presumption is that he's completely uninterested - no one would find you unreasonable re registration, I'm sure!

Access should be based on the child's best interests anyway, not on points the parents might raise against each other.

Just wanted to post about use of middle names. I was married to my now ex-DH but had always used my maiden name. So DS has his Christian name, a standard middle name, my surname as an extra middle name and then ex DH surname as DS surname. I very much like that my DS has both families in his names, so he can then choose when he is older what combination he likes. It does sound as if your ex_p's parents have been very supportive and want to continue to be so. I do have problems with the 4 names - usually from administrators who try to remove my DS's extra middle name. Hope all goes well :)

Chester, glad your ex's mother (maybe we should call her your baby's Granny, nicer associations) has been in touch with such a nice message.

Apologies for not reading whole thread in case things have moved on - but they need to take their hurt feelings to their son, not lay them on you. How ridiculous.

I wouldn't worry about whether he turns round and has a go at you for not allowing access. So what? His actions have caused any problems he has with access. He's been so abusive I really don't think you should make this easy for him. It doesn't sound like it would be in your child's interests. If his parents have contact then he can too - you can do it informally on your terms any time you like, but if he's on the birth certificate he can force it.

I really hate this modern day Jeremy Kyle fuelled attitude that men can be as spiteful, awkward and hateful as they like, but women must lay out the welcome mat unreservedly, and respect his rights as a father by making repeated attempts to offer information and access while carrying the entire burden without compaint, just in case he decides to acknowledge his child at any point.

*complaint

Yy GS.

Love, I would stop losing sleep over it and make the decision not to invite him to register the birth (don't even take the small risk he might) don't tell him when you go into labour or when you have had the baby at all - but certainly not before you have registered the birth.

He told you he doesn't want to be involved. He told you to have an abortion or he'd do it for you... he has lost all moral highground, irrespective of what you do or don't do re the birth certificate.

In time, if he decides he wants contact with your child, he will lie anyway about what you said/did & what he said/did - so what's the point in inviting trouble by inviting him to register the baby with you? He will have to go to a crap load more trouble to get any PR if he isn't on the BC. Defend you & your baby best you can and keep him the fuck away.

Whoever suggested it would be better to invite him to be on it, really doesn't know what they're talking about.

Only you can decide what to do about the middle name - but as I said earlier, I have a feeling they are going to be quite over-bearing and wont like being told they can't have the baby overnight etc and it's highly unlikely your ex is going to turn into parent of the century and so I think if you do use one of their names it will be something that has a lot of potential to upset you in years to come.

Her backing down, at the moment, is possibly 'keeping you onside' until the birth as well... thinking that if it's a girl 'no matter' and if it's a boy they can 'put apply pressure/guilt/whatever then'. Don't underestimate the amount of calculation possibly going on here.

I know you like them, I know they are (mostly) being supportive and want to be part of the baby's life but at the end of the day, blood is thicker than water and his parents will forgive his awful behaviour (especially as they only know the half of it!!!) and somehow it will all get turned around to being your fault. It's human nature. So, I think you should put a bit more distance between them and yourself or I think you are just setting yourself up to be more hurt in the future :(

Lots of good points from Chipping , Greenskittles and Swedish there.

Chester, this man has told you what he wants - basically he wants the baby not to exist, to the point where he threatened to kill it. You really do not need to second guess what he might want in the future.

You are a fantastic mother. Nevertheless, it's not going to be a picnic. Life as a single parent brings enough challenges - you can avoid making things harder by avoiding contact with your ex and his family until after you have given birth , registered the baby, and started to recover in a secure place. He has told you who he is and what he wants - believe him.

He has told you that he wants nothing to do with the baby-believe him. " she understood that I might want to think on it but that ex's father will be really pleased if I do choose to use it." -she's not really listening to you, is she?

Op I am.incredulous at your ILs attitude! Their own son has denied this baby is his and has threatened you. You have carried on very kindly and bravely to be in contact with his parents so that they can share this special time with you. For them to start dictating the baby's name or anything else is hugely disrepectful. Please don't give in to them otherwise they may start to make all kinds of demands. I had very controlling ex in laws who put pressure on me to do all sorts of things their way and we fell out terribly because I didn't stand up to them sooner. Congrats on your baby, you sound like a lovely mum.

OP I am in awe of your strength and compassion. You'll be an amazing Mum.

Re your ILs family name, I may be reading this wrong, but it sounds like MIL is coming under some pressure from Ex's F regarding the name and that she's more interested in being involved in your baby's life.

It must be tough for her (though on a different scale to what you've been through), having a son who she can't stop loving, but knowing what a terrible person he's been.

I've no words to help with the birth certificate, but I think you need to check your legal position for your own peace of mind. I do agree with the poster who said your ex will most likely lie about what was said anyway.

Good luck with your little one. Make up your own mind about the name. It's your choice and no one should criticise you for anything. I hope that whatever you decide, your baby will have loving grandparents in their life.

I can't help but think that if MIL is willing to push for using ex-P's middle name, that she (and FIL) are assuming that you will be giving the baby ex-P's surname - otherwise why would the middle name be an issue?

Why ask for a middle name, that would mean nothing without a surname - if you are not already seeing the baby with that surname?

Personally I would register the baby (and you might have to wait for an appointment and that could be weeks) and then contact exP with "DC was born on X date, Y weight, name IS" because otherwise the whole name thing comes up again.

Okay, having read this all, I am of the opinion that the Ex's attitude didn't come from nowhere.

So his parents, especially his mum, seem quite nice now, but people's attitudes are formed in large part by their upbringing, so I reckon they can't be entirely unaware of what their son is like.

The insistence on the name does seem quite controlling, and I agree with the idea that they are assuming the baby will have Ex's surname.

I recommend that you don't offer to have him on the BC, and present it all as a done deal after the baby has been registered.