Not to use exP's middle name for baby? ('IL' problem, who is BU?)

[chesterberry]

I?m 38 weeks pregnant. As a bit of background exP and I were together 3 years before we found out (baby was not planned). On finding out I was pregnant he first tried to force me into an abortion and later made threats towards me and the baby. That caused us to split and he now maintains the baby is not his as we were using contraception.

I had a good relationship with exP's parents and over the 3 years we were together went to numerous family occasions and have stayed with them several times. His mother and I have maintained contact, mainly through facebook, and she is excited about baby (first grandchild). She has expressed how disappointed she is with her son and is planning on visiting with exP's sister when baby is born. I haven't been in contact with exP's father and didn't really know what his feelings are about the baby or the situation.

Anyway, all was fine until yesterday ExP's mother messaged me about baby and in message asked if I had decided on names yet. I said I had a few names in mind although still not sure but had decided on the middle name for both a boy and girl. The middle names I have chosen are both meaningful (grandmother's name or late uncle's name). I told ExP'sM the names I've chosen and why. She then got a bit funny and said, "Oh, you're not using [ExP's middle name] then?"

ExP's middle name is a family middle name which is passed down through oldest son - his father has that middle name as did grandfather etc. I knew this but it never occurred to me to use this middle name as ExP doesn't see baby as his (although s/he is) and has no interest in the baby or being a father. However his mother has now been messaging telling me how upset exP's father is that I won't use the name and that it's unfair of me not to carry on the tradition etc as it makes it look like I'm shunning baby's paternal side and they want to be involved even if exP doesn't.

This isn't the case at all. I have always maintained that I will ensure grandparents are involved where they want to be and have been in contact with exP's mother throughout pregnancy. However, I do not really feel comfortable with using exP's middle name if my child is a boy. I'm not trying to shun baby's grandfather but I do feel that, as ex is uninterested in baby and may not even acknowledge baby as his child it would be unfair on both baby and ex-partner to use his middle name. But his parents maintain that it is oldest son and that if my baby is a boy (which I am now beginning to hope it isn't) tradition dictates baby has family middle name.

If baby is a boy he could of course have two middle names, the one I've chosen and exP's family name, but for so many reasons I really don't want to. ExP really hurt me and although on surface I may be coping I miss him and I am terrified about being a single mum, I admit part of me feels he just doesn't deserve baby to have his family middle name, even if it will upset grandparents. I'm also now worried about telling them baby will have my surname and starting to regret being so keen to allow his parents to be involved.

So, am I being totally unfair and unreasonable towards ExP's parents, and particularly, father on this issue? Or are they being unreasonable in wanting me to use family name when their son refuses to be involved? I am really not sure and I want to do the right thing by them, but also want to do right thing by myself and baby. Thanks and sorry this is so long.

Butfield

I know!

If the grandparents' support is conditional upon the baby having the name of their choice, they don't particularly sound like the kind of people you'd want support from anyway. If, on the other hand, they are as nice as they have hitherto appeared to be, they will be delighted just to have a relationship with their grandchild whatever he/she is called. The name thing is, or should be, a very minor issue.

Am a bit shocked at the idea that the ex may step up and become a loving, involved father after the birth. He may be a good father after suggesting an abortion, he may even be a good father after running away and claiming it wasn't his baby, but the threatening bit? I would have more than a small problem getting past that.

I got the whole 'tradition' line for naming DS too, but having spoken to MIL it turns out that this 'tradition' was only 3 generations deep so felt no guilt whatsoever by not calling DS by the (inoffensive, but not what I would choose) name - I did give it as a middle name instead, because I kinda see middle names as a bit throwaway (I have one, I like it, but have never needed to use it for anything so it's pretty pointless)

Exactly how traditional is this tradition?

In any case, like almost everyone else says, your eXP refuses to acknowledge this is his child, and it's his tradition, so you are under no obligation at all.

yanbu, and the suggestion of it by them inbu either. the problem lies in their reaction. I think its up to your x whether he wants this tradition to be followed if at all, and if so does he want it with this baby? as he isn't acknowledging the child then I doubt he would want it used.

whatever you do, do not pander to xmil and her blackmail about it. if they want to throw a hissy fit and back off then let them, as pandering will mean she will try it again over something else. a simple 'I'm sorry you feel that way but as your son refuses to acknowledge this child its it neither fair on the child or x to use that name' would suffice.

However, I do not really feel comfortable with using exP's middle name if my child is a boy. I'm not trying to shun baby's grandfather but I do feel that, as ex is uninterested in baby and may not even acknowledge baby as his child it would be unfair on both baby and ex-partner to use his middle name. But his parents maintain that it is oldest son and that if my baby is a boy (which I am now beginning to hope it isn't) tradition dictates baby has family middle name.

Tell exactly that to MIL. You have nothing to feel guilty about if your xP was still DP you might have compromised with him but naming a child is not GPs business. If they flounce off it's their loss.

It will have a FAMILY middle name anyway. Just not his family as he chose not to be a part of it.

Well I have messaged ex's mother to explain my reasons for not being keen to use the middle name, including my concern that ex-P will think it is a dig at him, and have said that as baby may be a girl anyway I would prefer not to discuss the issue further until the baby has been born. I haven't said an outright no, especially as I hadn't considered that for DC it would be a link to his paternal family which he might like and that he may feel left out if I don't use it. The name itself is traditional but not a name I dislike as such (not for a middle name anyway) so I guess I will think on it a bit more and wait until baby is born, and to see how exP reacts to that, to make a final decision. Thank you for giving me extra things to consider.

I am a little worried now that ex's mother is becoming a bit possessive and maybe I do need to set boundaries, but I have no idea how to go about that without causing any more bad feelings between us. I certainly won't want them to have any overnight access! I don't know them that well. As a child I saw my grandparents once every few months, maybe 4-5 times a year, and that was the kind of relationship I was envisaging. Obviously I accept that initially when baby is first born they might want to see baby more frequently as young babies grow up quickly and it will be exciting for everyone at that stage but I wasn't envisaging very regular contact. They live over 300 miles away and will have to stay in hotels/B&Bs when they come to visit so don't think it will be that often. Also ex's mother has only talked about her and ex's sister coming to visit when baby is born - until this name thing ex's father hadn't been mentioned and I have no idea whether he plans to come and visit or his feelings on the situation. Wish this wasn't so complicated but from what I've read on here sounds like ILs are often complicated even when not split from exP!

My DH apparently has 3 middle names which his family all agree and he can reel off, however I recently saw his birth certificate and only one of them is on there and he only ever really quotes the one officially. Slightly odd, I know, but maybe middle names can be more flexible. If they aren't going to be at the registry office with you, are they going to find out before he grows up and gets married and has to quote his full name?

Totally agree with MumnGran post and that you need to establish boundaries, and now WhereYouLeftIt has isolated that particular sentence from you long post, I am even more convinced his mother is BU. If, after all you have done to maintain contact, they will feel 'shunned' by your not using this bloomin name, they are being ridiculous.

Polyethel, the OP really doesn't want to use this traditional name, so I doubt if she wants to go out or her way to find another name to connect with this particular family.

My response would simply be, your son refuses to admit this child is his. Therefore in his eyes there are no family traditions to carry on. I welcome your choice to be involved in my baby's life and hope you come to have a meaningful relationship with my baby. However as we are no longer a couple and x refuses to acknowledge our child, which as you can imagine is extremely distressing and hurtful to me, I will not be carrying on this tradition. If in years to come my baby wishes to have his absent father's name I am more than happy for them to add it.

Looking forward to seeing you when baby is born.

If the grandparents' support is conditional upon the baby having the name of their choice, they don't particularly sound like the kind of people you'd want support from anyway

It sounds more to me like they are desperately ashamed of their sons behaviour and want to put things right in the best way that they can.

Perhaps the insistence on the name is their (clumsy) way of saying that they totally and completely accept your dc and want to consider him as a member of their family.

In terms of their access to DC it might not feel like something you can possibly even contemplate now but in 5 years time, it might be the best thing ever to have a lovely set of grandparents who are happy to have your DC overnight. Your DC can still have access to his Dad but with the full involvement of GP's who clearly want to love this grandchild.

That is aside from the name thing, I would hope that happens anyway. I feel a bit sorry for them actually. It sounds like his Mum feels terrible.

I think it's entirely up to you what you name your child.

Why would you want to lumber him with the traditional middle name (if he is in fact a boy) of the father who wanted him aborted?

His surname should also be yours, and will quite likely have to be anyway if P doesn't turn up to register the birth. I don't know why your MIL would assume any different?

As others have said, look to set some clear boundaries and don't let MIL make this all about her. Sure, it may be tricky for her. But not half as tricky as for you due to her son's immature behaviour. She should be supporting you wholeheartedly and if she can't then it's time to wind down the contact. This child wouldn't even have EXISTED if her son had had his way.

I feel sorry for them too, OP states she is not envisaging frequent contact and 4/5 visits a year should suffice. Imagine if the OP was a grandmother and her DIL did the same.

The name thing sounds like they are keen to include the child in the family regardless of their sons behaviour. The son is an adult and they can no longer make him do anything he doesnt want too. Choosing not to use the name as you dont want it to remind you of the ex is a daft reason, he is the childs father regardless of the name and will have equal parenting rights if he chooses to take them on.

Choosing to not use the name as you dont like it etc is fine but that doesnt appear to the the case.

^"I feel sorry for them too, OP states she is not envisaging frequent contact and 4/5 visits a year should suffice. Imagine if the OP was a grandmother and her DIL did the same."

Is that not a normal frequency to see grandparents? When I was younger my family saw my paternal grandparents for one week-long holiday in the summer and would then go and stay with them for two or three other weekends over the year. They never came to stay with us. My maternal grandmother would come and spend Christmas with us for around a week and we would go and visit her for around one week in the summer. Paternal grandparents lived about 150 miles away and maternal grandparents about 300 miles away.

My ex said to me that if I didn't have an abortion he would 'get rid of it himself.' This was both frightening and hurtful to me - before that our relationship had been perfect I thought he would be a wonderful father and although it wasn't planned was excited about raising a child together. I guess there is a part of me that just doesn't want my child to have a name which reminds me of him, although I appreciate that if he chooses to recognise the baby as his at any point he will have equal parenting rights.

I like the idea of using paternal grandfather's first name as a middle name instead (or maybe using paternal mother's name if baby is a girl) as a compromise. Ex's father's name is not shared by ex-partner and I would feel so much happier about using that as it wouldn't be a reminder of ex-partner.

That should be 'although it wasn't planned I was excited about raising a child together.' Unfortunately he was never anything but negative about it.

I don't think that you owe them anything-or why you are giving headspace to their wishes .

The babies father won't acknowledge the baby as his.

I'm sorry, but I don't think the fact that they do is any great shakes tbh-as it does all sound like self interest on their part so far.

What if he does one day have a child that he admits as his?

Will yours be cast aside by them?

Your choice. Stick to your guns. And good luck.

Reading your last post OP, it sounds like your ex wasn't just negative, but abusive as well. Did you ever report his threats to harm you and your unborn child?

Remember that technically grandparents don't have a right to see their grandchildren. Yes, in an ideal world, we'd all have great relationships and where those relationships are good, that's obviously something to be encouraged. However, your main priority now is you, your baby and not being stressed about the mother of a man who wanted to abort her future grandchild.

Honestly, I'd be looking to get some legal advice so you're very clear in your mind about where you all stand.

NEEVR REVEAL NAMES before the birth is my tip.
you just say " this is bla bla" and thats it

Out of interest: does mil know that son behaved like this?

Laying guilt trips on your son's abandoned pregnant ex-girlfriend sounds a funny way to make amends IMO. They probably do want to welcome the baby, but they're being awfully pushy about it. A little delicacy would seem appropriate in the circumstances.

Ex's mother knows that he was not pleased to find out I was pregnant and that he wanted me to have an abortion. She knows the pregnancy is the reason we split up and that he is not acknowledging the baby is his. She doesn't know about the threatening behaviour, he didn't act on it and it was only one time when he was very drunk. There are a few other aspects of his behaviour I haven't shared because I worry she would find them unforgivable, for example he repeatedly told me he was hoping I'd miscarry. His mother had a child who was stillborn so I think that news would be devastating to her and she might not forgive him for saying that. His mum already feels bad about the situation and her relationship with my exP has already suffered over this so I don't want to give her all of the nasty details and risk damaging their relationship permanently. Part of the reason I am so keen to ensure the paternal grandparents can have a relationship with my DC is so that I won't cause them to resent their son for denying them their first grandchild - I'm not forgiving what he did but it's not his parent's fault and they don't deserve the hurt they would feel if they knew everything he has said. His parents are both lovely, they welcomed me into their family whilst exP and I were together (and still are now really) and I am sure they will be brilliant grandparents. The situation is already complicated and I guess in the long-run this middle-name thing is not a big issue compared to some of the other issues that have gone on. I think whether the baby is a boy or a girl I will use the suggestion by a pp of using an alternative name from the paternal side to reassure them I do want them involved without having to use a name directly connected to my exP.

I wouldn't have even discussed names with her. My ex and I didn't discuss the names we were thinking of for our kids with anyone as people then put their tuppenceworth in and we didn't want other input, and we liked our relatives.
I'd have just been vague about it and told her you'd let her know what the baby's name is when you have decided.
She doesn't get to have any input at all into the naming of this child.

Happy I'm going to predict that you live pretty close (in distance) to your family.

Chester 4 / 5 times a year is fairly normal for long distance grandparents, they live 300 miles away - they can't exactly pop in for Sunday lunch!

To give perspective I am pretty close to my parents but until this year I probably only saw them about 5 times a year. Until recently my dad worked full time so visits had to be at weekends and as they live a distance away it involved travelling / hosting. So 5 visits for us, 5 visits to my db (who they also quite like despite him not yet deigning to reproduce), maybe 8 visits to my mums dying mother - who lives in yet another city, one visit each for each of their 3 siblings and maybe one friend visit. Adds up to 22 weekends a year taken up with either visiting or hosting.

Which is a lot - especially as they do like to go on holiday too!

2013 has seen changes aa my dad has retired, my gran has died and my dc2 has been born. So suddenly there is a lot more time to visit and I am able to host during the week as on mat leave. I think .i have seen them 5 times so far this year and hopefully will see them another 3 or 4 before Xmas. But I expect this to settle down to about 6 - 8 visits once ds is not so teeny and I am back at work.