Not to use exP's middle name for baby? ('IL' problem, who is BU?)

[chesterberry]

I?m 38 weeks pregnant. As a bit of background exP and I were together 3 years before we found out (baby was not planned). On finding out I was pregnant he first tried to force me into an abortion and later made threats towards me and the baby. That caused us to split and he now maintains the baby is not his as we were using contraception.

I had a good relationship with exP's parents and over the 3 years we were together went to numerous family occasions and have stayed with them several times. His mother and I have maintained contact, mainly through facebook, and she is excited about baby (first grandchild). She has expressed how disappointed she is with her son and is planning on visiting with exP's sister when baby is born. I haven't been in contact with exP's father and didn't really know what his feelings are about the baby or the situation.

Anyway, all was fine until yesterday ExP's mother messaged me about baby and in message asked if I had decided on names yet. I said I had a few names in mind although still not sure but had decided on the middle name for both a boy and girl. The middle names I have chosen are both meaningful (grandmother's name or late uncle's name). I told ExP'sM the names I've chosen and why. She then got a bit funny and said, "Oh, you're not using [ExP's middle name] then?"

ExP's middle name is a family middle name which is passed down through oldest son - his father has that middle name as did grandfather etc. I knew this but it never occurred to me to use this middle name as ExP doesn't see baby as his (although s/he is) and has no interest in the baby or being a father. However his mother has now been messaging telling me how upset exP's father is that I won't use the name and that it's unfair of me not to carry on the tradition etc as it makes it look like I'm shunning baby's paternal side and they want to be involved even if exP doesn't.

This isn't the case at all. I have always maintained that I will ensure grandparents are involved where they want to be and have been in contact with exP's mother throughout pregnancy. However, I do not really feel comfortable with using exP's middle name if my child is a boy. I'm not trying to shun baby's grandfather but I do feel that, as ex is uninterested in baby and may not even acknowledge baby as his child it would be unfair on both baby and ex-partner to use his middle name. But his parents maintain that it is oldest son and that if my baby is a boy (which I am now beginning to hope it isn't) tradition dictates baby has family middle name.

If baby is a boy he could of course have two middle names, the one I've chosen and exP's family name, but for so many reasons I really don't want to. ExP really hurt me and although on surface I may be coping I miss him and I am terrified about being a single mum, I admit part of me feels he just doesn't deserve baby to have his family middle name, even if it will upset grandparents. I'm also now worried about telling them baby will have my surname and starting to regret being so keen to allow his parents to be involved.

So, am I being totally unfair and unreasonable towards ExP's parents, and particularly, father on this issue? Or are they being unreasonable in wanting me to use family name when their son refuses to be involved? I am really not sure and I want to do the right thing by them, but also want to do right thing by myself and baby. Thanks and sorry this is so long.

yanbu and given circumstances are doing great and obviously have babys best interests at heart as you are making the effort to.keep in touch with grandparents etc.

i would just explain you have chosen names with meaning to you and you dont feel comfortable with using your exs name. tbh you dont have to explain at all and unless your ex goes with you to register the baby he cant even be on the birth certificate.

if you normally get on ok with exs mum and think she would understand maybe say to her tgat you are feeling vulnerable etc and do not need any added pressure?

RedHelen - I wasn't doubting the OP's sincerity in letting the GPs be involved, it was your assertion that she shouldn't take out her hurt on them, which she wasn't doing.

YANBU.

I would forget about it though until the baby is born, easier said than done I know, and think more about it then. I have known a few men to do what your ex is doing who turn out to be good fathers when the baby actually arrives, even if they are shit partners.

A middle name seems like a massively important thing now while your child is still unborn, but when they are growing up, a connection to both of their parents will become more important than a name that never gets used or thought about.

When the baby is here, I would then think very carefully if you want to deny your son his place in one half of his families traditions. How would he feel when he is older if he isn't given the name that signals he is part of his fathers family?

Sounds sensible!

Please please do also make sure your baby gets your surname.

He tried to make you have an abortion and has been threatening then dismissive of your pregnancy, YANBU to not want to use the name. It is a separate issue to his family being involved as far as I can see.

Names are up to the parents not the wider family, and as he hasn't been a parent that means it's up to you.

Actually I wonder if MIL is in denial or wants to save face in front of friends and neighbours. Pretending it's all amicable between you and her son. No doubt she has an idea that after the birth she'll be able to sort it all out and get him involved with being a father.

Surely its 'traditional' that the father doesn't plan the abortion of then abandon the child altogether.. so there is already quite a split with tradition here. No, of course YANBU.

Absolutely no way would I name my baby after someone he threatened me and them.

Broken If the baby's dad doesn't see him then I don't think having his name is going to help much. "No - your daddy doesn't want to watch you play football, come to parents evening, scare away the monsters but never mind - you have his middle name!"

If the partner comes back then I don't think not having the name is going to matter.

As I said above we have not used the family tradition for ds but we are using the family tradition of having dh love, protect and raise ds. I think he'll forgive us!

I think Edam summed it up with that its the father's family tradition for him to uphold however he has chosen to abdicate that responsibility. YANBU an it is unfair for ex-MIL to pressure you as such. Send her an email saying such and paraphrase Twinklyfingers of feeling for her as it is her grandchild and the circumstances.

What I wouldn't do is tell them about the surname yet. If they ask, just say you're tired and concentrating on the birth. As Charlesroi says, you can decide on the day. But the last thing you want is pressure and blackmail in the last few weeks of pregnancy and then the first few weeks of your child's life.

Out of interest, does your family have any traditions? I find it difficult to understand why one families tradition takes precedence over the other, but that's just me

It's up to you but I do disagree with your family if they are saying you shouldn't have any involvement with your ex's parents.

Just because your ex doesn't want to be involved I think to exclude his parents is punishing them and that's not right. If they want to be involved then you should ensure that they can be.

chesterberry. I think your plan sounds perfect. I hope it all works out and that you can maintain a good relationship with your exDPs Mum.

Lots of families seem to go through a rocky patch when first babies come along. I think pregnancy hormones effect a much wider audience than just the pregnant Mum. Hopefully, once the baby has been born and things have settled down you will be able to establish a good 'working' relationship with the extended family.

Congrats on the baby.

TBH, I don't think that you owe them any explanations.

Your child, you name them what you want when the time comes.

If you want them to be involved, fair enough-but I'd be a bit wary if they're getting miffed already about names!

What if you had a family tradition to name the first male child in the family a certain name . whose to say that your tradition is less than theirs ,

Mum trumps grandparent on the naming front, yanb

If the child is taking your surname then he's not the first male child in their family, he will not have the family name, so that tradition is meaningless. Plus the father is a massive arse and doesn't deserve any recognition.
Tell them they will have to wait for your Ex to have a child that he is willing to recognise and then he can choose the middle name. until then, you are the sole parent and its your decision.

I think they may well be focusing on this middle name issues in order to avoid facing up to how disgracefully their son is behaving towards you. It's so much easier for them to fret and argue over potential things, like a baby's name, than examine the reality of their son being a shit.

If he doesn't even want to accept the baby is his, it seems outrageous that the baby should get his middle name, if a boy. If they keep pressing the issue, I would personally tell them that he refuses to even believe it is his, so why should it have his name (not in an aggressive or 'your son is a wanker' way, just in a 'this is the truth of the matter, you have to face up to it' way. Respectful but totally straight-up). You also need to point out to them that the way he is behaving, and how you are coping and will cope, are far more REAL problems than a middle name.

You sound really together and mature, btw. That baby is lucky already :)

YANBU But......

either way, your cunt of an ex partner is his biological father and you have what sounds like a superb and supportive relationship with his family who will hopefully be a part of his life.

Your DC identity will be made up of lots of factors including family stories, traditions and histories.

Using the name will strengthen and reinforce his identity with his other family if nothing else. He will have a loving and involved set of grandparents. If doing this adds a bit of glue to the situation, I would personally go with it. But i'm not in your position so how i'd actually feel if i was. i don't know, not in your shoes!

Tough decision. It will have a long term impact on your DC identity. Hopefully not on the quality of his relationships with extended family though. I wish you all the best with it.

Yanbu, he has walked away which makes any name choices clearly down to you. I wouldn't use the middle name & especially not the surname.

His parents, due to them being involved very much have a right to mention the middle name but you have every right to refuse and now they have kicked up a storm due to you saying no points out this family are not as wonderful as you have been led to believe.

They should be worried about your stress levels not create more!!
You have enough worry on your shoulders now you are to be a single parent, do what you want and name baby what you like, don't allow them to stress you over a middle name that is here nor there considering it may be a girl anyway!

Hi OP. Pleased you feel that you are seeing a clearer way to handle this because you were definitely NBU.
Wanted to say, though, that I think it would be a good idea to just put a little more distance between you and the paternal grandparents.
The whole naming issue waves a little flag that they are feeling a tad 'possessive' about your baby, already, and it would be a smart move to start laying down some boundaries now so that you are not overwhelmed once baby arrives.

I have the feeling that requests for overnight stays at very early age, etc, could be on the cards ....so maybe this is a good time to think through what you are going to be comfortable with, and start those talks .... as a direct spinoff ffrom staying firm on the name issue.

"However his mother has now been messaging telling me how upset exP's father is that I won't use the name and that it's unfair of me not to carry on the tradition etc as it makes it look like I'm shunning baby's paternal side and they want to be involved even if exP doesn't."

I'm actually feeling quite with his mother. How dare she try a stunt like this? Unfair ? Shunning ? After how you've been treated by her PFB? She should be so bloody grateful you haven't told her to eff off! The cynic in me wonders if this is all about her saving face rather than her having a relationship with you and your child. Oooh, the tradition continues so everything is OK! Rather than having to face up to her son being such a shit and upsetting his father .

edam made a point that I think is highly relevant. "The responsibility for continuing family traditions is HIS and he has chosen to abdicate all responsibility. " This is not your responsibility. And they are not your family, regardless of whatever interest his mother has in maintaining relations with you. And even if you were still together and he was the most involved father in the world, it still wouldn't be a given that your first son would have this middle name. And frankly, exP's father should be more upset at having raised a shit of a son than about a poxy middle name! Which brings me back to my thoughts about this being more about saving face than dealing with the reality for them.

You are NOT being unfair and unreasonable towards ExP's parents. If anything you are being eminently fair in maintaining contact with them. They, on the other hand are being unreasonable in wanting you to maintain their tradition. And his mother is being beyond unreasonable in pressuring you into kow-towing to them. In your shoes I'd be inclined to respond to her messaging with something along the lines of 'I would be uncomfortable using that name, and I really don't want to discuss it further'.

"Tradition dictates" ? No, nobody gets to dictate to you.

You say they are nice people - so is there a compromise?

If the traditional middle name will not be used then how about the grandfather's first name? Could that be used as an alternative middle name? It would show a gesture towards acknowledgeing the paternal family. The exMIL can hardly begrudge if the baby's middle name is named after the exFIL, rather than the traditional middle name.

The normal mumsnet line is that it is ok to ignore naming traditions and call the baby whatever you like - and it makes me sad every time I see that line trotted out.

Whether it is logical or not families are tribal and names are our traditional tribal markers - and refusing any gesture of acknowledging that does cause people upset.

Whether reasonable or not I can understand why your exMIL is feeling rejected. And I also understand her feeling that by ignoring the paternal names you are declaring that the baby isn't really one of them.

If you like your exMIL & FIL then do try to find a face saving compromise so that no one feels rejected. There must be some other middle name they'll accept as an alternative. Perhaps the MIL's maiden surname?

As somebody said earlier how about using two middle names so the grandparents feel included. It will also soften the blow when they find out that the baby will have your surname and not theirs. They are only insisting that the middle name be one of theirs not the surname, I would concede on that point. Middle names are not as important as surnames. The baby will be known as your child because you will have the same surname regardless of middle name. Again your choice as it is your baby.

Polyethyl - the thing is, when a couple have a baby, there are TWO families involved. One family doesn't trump the other when it comes to naming. And tbh no-one has the right to tell the actual parents what to do.

As one of the parents has buggered off, it's entirely down to chester. Her family may well have a history of choosing entirely new names for every baby. Whatever, it's chester who is carrying and giving birth to this baby, it's chester who gets to decide.

I have always been v v glad that dh's granddad stopped the family tradition that had gone on for generations of giving a frankly embarrassing middle name. DH is the first boy for the best part of 200 years to escape being called 'Butfield'.

Amongst dh's fathers stuff, we recently found a sampler from 1792 signed 'Elizabeth Butfield' so at least we know where it came from - but I'm still glad dh isn't a Butfield and even if he had been, it would never have been an option for ds!