To ask everyone not to ignore abusive parenting, including cursing a child in public.

[missmarplestmarymead]

I know some think it is unreasonable to intervene but in the light of the details we have heard today about the tragic Daniel Pelka, can we please all stick our noses in especially where they are not wanted.

Don't let abusive parents abuse their children on the street and either be too frightened to say anything or dream up possible excuses for their behaviour. hey will think they are getting away with it, especially if they can pull the wool over the eyes of social workers and teachers.

It really is our solemn duty not to look the other way.

Oh give over Poster, Sorry but you also have no idea of the history or experiences of others commenting on this thread.

I know you will keep defending your actions and why you did what you did.

But I can promise you you're not the only one who has experienced depression and despair. So please stop with the defensive crap.

However the reality of your situation was that, as you yourself say, you did not want to "fess up" to hitting your three year old because you feared she would be taken away. So you chose not to access support, it wasn't that you couldn't find any.

I said Child Protection in this country is woefully inadequate and that includes Children's homes. There needs to be a sea change in attitude towards child's rights in this country so that their interests are represented something akin to what the scandanavian countries practice.

Poster, I don't think we should advocate leaving children in vulnerable positions for the sake of sparing the 'Adult's feelings'. Keeping abuse a 'secret' is not really a way forward is it?

Nutcracker - support and having your child taken away are totally different things. There was no fucking SUPPORT available. I did not defend my actions quite the opposite. I am off now so please continue to revel in your own judgey ignorance.

Golden it was not to spare my feelings but to find a way to stop hitting my child without her being taken away. I knew I needed help but could not find any.

Poster: Best wishes to you and your family.

Some people are too quick to judge others.
Thank god that there are not the SWs.

The care system can be abusive too.
Foster parents aren't all angels.
Some are downright cruel and hide it well.

Timeoutchange I've already said that I think ALL Child Protection Services need to change and that it needs a total overhaul, a completely different way in thinking about CP, a completely different way in operating. Children having the right to be protected from assault by the law which would mean a complete ban of corporal punishment. Corporal punishment in Sweden has been outlawed since 1979, it has meant a generation of children have not been hit and that children are treated equally by the law in cases of assault. The law also forbids mental humiliation.

A large publicity campaign for the law ensured a sea change of attitudes towards children within a generation. The Law and more importantly the Educational campaign that accompanied it provided a complete 'attitude' shift towards child welfare within a generation and that is what is needed here IMO. The Law as it stands now silently sanctions corporal punishment, making it harder to provide early intervention and support/education on better techniques to bring up children.

Whatever Poster. Call me ignorant and judgemental if it is pleases you.

Personally I think you didn't do all you could to protect your own child from your abuse. All you cared about was not having her taken away.

Yes, perhaps it's quite a good thing that I'm not a SW [although I do work in a field connected to child protection] because I can't quite summon up enough of the sympathy for you that you obviously feel you deserve. Have tons for your daughter at three years old though.

Yes exactly NutcrackerFairy.

You are an adult Poster, whilst you take for granted that you are protected by the Law from assault, your daughter was not automatically given that protection. No one is saying the children cannot test your patience or even unfortunately in some peoples' cases create mental health issues but are you honestly expecting all people to have more sympathy for you than a vulnerable toddler?

So what should Poster have actually done?

Goldenbear What planet are you on? Of course there is legislation protecting children from assault!

Well Caster, I don't know about you but if I was hitting my child to the point of feeling I could kill them I would probably start by begging for help from my GP, practice nurse or anyone that would listen. Husband perhaps?

I may not say to them that I feared I might kill my child but I might say that I was feeling really stressed and needed help.

I wouldn't just keep harming my child and decide not to try to get support purely because I was afraid that my child would be taken away.

And I certainly wouldn't post on a thread like this with a defensive and contemptuous attitude towards anyone who doesn't immediately tell me oh don't worry, you did the best you could, there was absolutely no support and nothing else you could have done except take your misery out on a vulnerable toddler.

Unfortunately, I'm on a Planet, a specific part of a planet called England, where corporal punishment in the home is still legal. As soon as a child turns 18 it is 'Common Assault'. How is that protective? As I said up thread it is barbaric!

Caster, I've already said what I think would reduce that kind of behaviour from a parent. At the end of the day we are all legally responsible for our actions at 18 unless we can prove otherwise. If you need help you have to access it, it is not a 3 year old's responsibility.

I do think it's very peculiar that we are very zero tolerance when it comes to emotional abuse of women in relationships - saying "oh he's a good provider" cuts no ice and rightly so.

But when it comes to emotional abuse of children, all sorts of excuses are made.

I don't understand the idea that people are too quick to phone social services, I can point to several Serious Case Reviews where numerous members of the public saw a child being abused "but didn't want to get involved".

I hate the "don't interfere, SS know what they're doing" attitudes that are frequently trotted out on these threads. We can all help to make things better for children in society and social workers et al are only human.

I saw a very aggressive lady in the supermarket generally ranting at her daughter and I was too scared to say anything as the little girl was already being blamed for everything. I had no idea what to do as I think I would have got punched and was pregnant but couldn't exactly report her as I had no idea who she was...I wish I had though

Goldenbear You are not allowed to slap your child around willy nilly which is what you are implying.

No, I'm not 'implying' anything, the Law permits corporal punishment in the home.

Candy you are providing you don't leave a mark.

If you confront a random parent in the street for verbally abusing their children you are more than likely get a punch in the face and the child being abused more because it makes the parents angrier and embarrassed for being called up on behaviour in the street, if anybody is concerned for a childs welfare phone the police , I have stepped in once and was told to fuck off and the little child was dragged off, I asked the mum to calm down as she was roaring at him, was awful,

Sockreturningpixie, I am also right- corporal punishment is permitted. You are not allowed to leave a mark but it is STILL corporal punishment.

The UN Committee On the Rights of the Child' define Corporal punishment as:

" any punishment in which physical force is used and intended to cause some degree of pain or discomfort, however light".

Golden before you go off on one getting all defensive, go and reread my post as a direct response to candys.

I was agreeing with YOU and telling her that yes you can hit your children willy nilly as the law allows you to.

Interestingly you don't even have to have a justifiable reason as its 100% up to the parents choice the only time an issue will be created and the parent could be punished is if a marks left.

Its one of the few things about uk law that makes me ashamed to be in the uk.

Oops! Apologies for the misunderstanding.