To ask everyone not to ignore abusive parenting, including cursing a child in public.

[missmarplestmarymead]

I know some think it is unreasonable to intervene but in the light of the details we have heard today about the tragic Daniel Pelka, can we please all stick our noses in especially where they are not wanted.

Don't let abusive parents abuse their children on the street and either be too frightened to say anything or dream up possible excuses for their behaviour. hey will think they are getting away with it, especially if they can pull the wool over the eyes of social workers and teachers.

It really is our solemn duty not to look the other way.

[betterthanever]

There is also a strict procedure that must be followed and evidenced before you can remove a child. I mentioned this up thread and this is a big issue and not just in public cases either. I hope the SS department you worked at are able to shout from the hill tops why it happened and the problems they faced and not just have thier manager/director give the usual line `we could never have predicted this would have happened' or things will not change and the good social workers with have an even harder time. Too many good people are silenced to protect those not so good.

I think educating children, even young children, about how they should be expected to be treated, in very simple terms, and making them feel able to talk is important... but even then, good parents can often come under fire. I think this is important and setting a good example has to be one way to education children surley or they think it is ok, especially if they see a trusted parent do it - someone who is the centre of thier world? I don't think it is acceptable to be swore at and I don't want my DC to think it is, in turn I hope they don't do it.

I want my DC surrounded by people who are nice to them, I recon it will make them happier. Can't say it has ever filled me with pleasure when I am sworn at. I don't mind debate and critisism either it gives me other perspectives and educates me and I hope makes me act better towards others as a result, I can't say being sworn at ever achieved that.

[NutcrackerFairy]

I agree Aldi, although I can imagine it was a bit wtf for you initially!

I would actually feel reassured that other adults in society are looking out for my child.

As parents we can sometimes feel very isolated in caring for the wellbeing of our children.

It is good to know that other adults entrusted to his care take their wellbeing as seriously as I do and would intervene if required to do so.

[aldiwhore]

Whilst I agree that we shouldn't stand by and watch a child be treated badly, in many cases there are no obvious clues.

I recently found out my best friend from childhood was horrendously abused, physically, sexually, emotionally. She was tortured, humiliated and denied her basic needs.

I never knew.

The only clue was her quietness, and there are many happy quiet children.

I think educating children, even young children, about how they should be expected to be treated, in very simple terms, and making them feel able to talk is important... but even then, good parents can often come under fire.

My son once told his teacher we never have any food in the house, she beckoned me into her office and we had a chat. She was not accusing, just seeking clarity. What my son actually meant was that there is rarely food in the house he can grab and eat without any prep... this is true, we never have convenience food in, because I cook from scratch as much as possible!! We have LOADS of food.

I felt actually confident that this teacher had done absolutely the right thing in speaking to me.

[FairyJen]

This will put me but fuck it.

I used to work for Coventry ss in the very office where Daniels case was - I left before all this. I know first hand how thin the resources are. There is also a strict procedure that must be followed and evidenced before you can remove a child.

I know Colin green and the other workers and trust me nothing written on this board will make them feel any more shit than they already do!

I have as well been known to swear in front of/ at my dc. Shoot me

[betterthanever]

Dahlen I think you put that very well.

[Titsalinabumsquash]

My DP stood in between a man and a toddler yesterday after witnessing him slapping the child across the face and screaming that he was a worthless little shit cunt.

As soon as DP stood in between them and calmly told the man to calm down and leave the child alone or he would call the police the man went very quiet, apologised to the child and hugged him and went on his way.

I hope to god DP didn't make it worse for that kid.

[Dahlen]

I think there is a fine line between making it clear that abusive behaviour is socially unacceptable and interfering simply because it makes us feel better. The vast majority of abuse goes on behind closed doors; that much is at least fact. What you see on the street is a mere snapshot, and it is highly likely that interfering will result in dire consequences for the victim. The sort of person likely to be shamed by a stranger's condemnation is more likely to be the sort of person who's simply having a very bad day, rather than behaving in an established abusive pattern.

However, sometimes another adult interfering can let a child know that other adults find abusive behaviour unacceptable.

It's a personal judgement call ultimately.

What is far more beneficial to victims and society generally is that we all take far more note of what is going on in our own communities rather than with random families in the high street. If everyone looked out for the children of their neighbours that would achieve a lot more.

[Arnie123]

In future if I ever come across anything like this I am filming it on my phone and then showing the footage to the police

[Arnie123]

I had one recently (I started a thread about it) when a woman came out of the supermarket shouting to a toddler you better come on now or I am fucking twatting you you little shit. She then shouted it again and caught me giving her an appalled glance. She then started on me saying what the fuck are you looking at I am going to fucking twat you you interfering bitch. I went absolutely beserk at her and told her I hope the ss remove the child. I wish I could have done more but as she did not get into a car I could not take the registration so if I called the police they would not have traced her

[Goldenbear]

Frankly, it comes down to an argument in semantics then Altinkum. I was referring to the definition of 'Corporal punishment' not the specific phrasing within English Law. I personally chose to refer to the UN definition.

The definition of Corporal punishment is the same all over, regardless of the Laws of a country. I'm therefore NOT incorrect in stating England still prohibits Corporal punishment in the home.

What is the purpose of highlighting the barbaric treatment of children in other countries it does not equate to English Child Services being Gold standard.

[Goldenbear]

Oops! Apologies for the misunderstanding.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Golden before you go off on one getting all defensive, go and reread my post as a direct response to candys.

I was agreeing with YOU and telling her that yes you can hit your children willy nilly as the law allows you to.

Interestingly you don't even have to have a justifiable reason as its 100% up to the parents choice the only time an issue will be created and the parent could be punished is if a marks left.

Its one of the few things about uk law that makes me ashamed to be in the uk.

[Goldenbear]

The UN Committee On the Rights of the Child' define Corporal punishment as:

" any punishment in which physical force is used and intended to cause some degree of pain or discomfort, however light".

[Goldenbear]

Sockreturningpixie, I am also right- corporal punishment is permitted. You are not allowed to leave a mark but it is STILL corporal punishment.

[mrsjay]

If you confront a random parent in the street for verbally abusing their children you are more than likely get a punch in the face and the child being abused more because it makes the parents angrier and embarrassed for being called up on behaviour in the street, if anybody is concerned for a childs welfare phone the police , I have stepped in once and was told to fuck off and the little child was dragged off, I asked the mum to calm down as she was roaring at him, was awful,

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Candy you are providing you don't leave a mark.

[Goldenbear]

No, I'm not 'implying' anything, the Law permits corporal punishment in the home.

[candycoatedwaterdrops]

Goldenbear You are not allowed to slap your child around willy nilly which is what you are implying.

[Cheeseatmidnight]

I saw a very aggressive lady in the supermarket generally ranting at her daughter and I was too scared to say anything as the little girl was already being blamed for everything. I had no idea what to do as I think I would have got punched and was pregnant but couldn't exactly report her as I had no idea who she was...I wish I had though

[GoshAnneGorilla]

I do think it's very peculiar that we are very zero tolerance when it comes to emotional abuse of women in relationships - saying "oh he's a good provider" cuts no ice and rightly so.

But when it comes to emotional abuse of children, all sorts of excuses are made.

I don't understand the idea that people are too quick to phone social services, I can point to several Serious Case Reviews where numerous members of the public saw a child being abused "but didn't want to get involved".

I hate the "don't interfere, SS know what they're doing" attitudes that are frequently trotted out on these threads. We can all help to make things better for children in society and social workers et al are only human.

[Goldenbear]

Unfortunately, I'm on a Planet, a specific part of a planet called England, where corporal punishment in the home is still legal. As soon as a child turns 18 it is 'Common Assault'. How is that protective? As I said up thread it is barbaric!

Caster, I've already said what I think would reduce that kind of behaviour from a parent. At the end of the day we are all legally responsible for our actions at 18 unless we can prove otherwise. If you need help you have to access it, it is not a 3 year old's responsibility.