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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think this is bad advice? (Re. Bullies)

185 replies

Angora831 · 28/07/2013 22:45

I've read a lot of threads here and on other Internet hangouts about bullies. Invariably, someone will advise teaching your children 'witty' comebacks to show up the bully. Speaking as a teacher with a few years at the coalface behind me, I'd just like to say THIS NEVER WORKS. This is because:

A) the comeback is clearly practiced at home with Mum. Children aren't stupid and they pick up on this.

B) Bullies are generally clever and charismatic children, and every time I've witnessed a child retorting with an obviously rehearsed comeback, the bully is able to verbally outwit them and make them look small and stupid. Horrid to watch, must be more horrid for the victim (and because I know what Mumsnet is like and where this thread will go, please rest assured that I do punish bullying behaviour when I witness it).

I'm not saying i have all the answers to bullying, but based on my own experience (and my highly scientific poll of the staff room before we broke up last week), the 'hilarious comeback' approach just doesn't work.

OP posts:
Sparklysilversequins · 29/07/2013 10:39

One thing that worked for me was my Mum telling me to identify a feature on a person that is unattractive or they are self conscious about then call them that:-

Eg there was a girl who always had something to say or the piss to take out of me, she wasn't even in our year but we sat near each other in assigned seats on the bus to school. My Mum asked what she looked like and I said as part of my description that she had fat legs. My Mum said "there you go then, whenever she says anything say "oh shut up Fat Legs!" It worked it really did and I only had to do it once. She was obviously so self conscious about them. The only thing with that though is I felt brave enough to do it because the bus was a controlled area, with a driver and escort etc. In other situations I was simply too scared too in case I got a kicking. I do think it could be effective, though a very low blow Grin. Image is important at that age and you certainly don't want your most unattractive feature being pointed out to half the school.

Whothefuckfarted · 29/07/2013 11:03

The only thing that stopped the bullies at my school was when they got the shit kicked out of them by one very angry victim. me

Never had any problems after that.

Whothefuckfarted · 29/07/2013 11:05

Oh and I did get a 3 day expulsion but didn't care.

Kleinzeit · 29/07/2013 11:09

I don?t know ? it depends on the type of bullying. Some kids used to like winding my DS up because then he?d lash out and either he?d get in trouble or they?d feel justified in attacking him, depending. Having some smart answers put a stop to that. Not that he rehearsed them with me or anything, I don?t think I?d ever have figured out that sneering ?your Mum? was considered the ?smart? response to an insult Smile

YouTheCat · 29/07/2013 11:11

What about bullying online? Even happens on MN. Thread from a month ago bumped so some people can have a laugh at someone who has poor literacy skills. Nice Hmm

Sparklysilversequins · 29/07/2013 11:23

Yes there's some on here, no mistake. Sneering at thread choices and trying to make you feel stupid. I am not sure why people want to be like that. Why do you want to make people too scared to post in case of ridicule? Luckily there's not that many. Just a couple of notable ones who never offer any kindly advice (unless its to their mates) and like to post in an abrupt and belittling way. They are usually to be found right here is AIBU. Which says a lot really doesn't it?

TheDeadlyDonkey · 29/07/2013 11:25

Sparkly, I did that once. For months, I had endured taunts about being fat, from one boy and his minions. One day I snapped and turned it on him. It didn't work - they couldn't believe I had been so cruel Hmm and continued to bully me.
Home was no support. It was made clear that I was being bullied because I was fat, so I never bothered saying anything, after all, it was my fault.

I would love to have the opportunity to confront my bullies (of course I will be beautiful and successful - fat chance of that) and tell them exactly how they made me feel.
I heard through FB that one of my bully's sons is now being bullied. My FB friend who is friends with him added a message to his comment along the lines of karma being a bitch, but hoping that his son's bully wasn't as nasty as he was at that age.

TheDeadlyDonkey · 29/07/2013 11:29

People want to be like that because they are brought up to try to feel superior, through intelligence, looks, size, I don't think it matters.
Some people are shits and only feel good if they are making others feel crap about themselves.

Yy to bullying on MN. Surely this is only to be expected though? MN has posters from all walks of life, bullies not excluded.

YouTheCat · 29/07/2013 11:36

True. So would it be better to call them on it? There's nothing to report in what has been said but the thread has clearly been bumped to have a laugh at the OP's expense.

It's that nasty, subtle undertone.

Morloth · 29/07/2013 11:37

I always feel free to tell people to pull their fucking heads in on here YouTheCat.

The advantage of anonymity goes both ways.

YouTheCat · 29/07/2013 11:39

I'm going to leave it and hope it drops off the page purely because the OP hasn't returned to it.

If it gets bumped again, then I'll post.

aliasjoey · 29/07/2013 11:44

DD going to be starting secondary school soon - they have something I never heard of before called Vertical Tutoring. Small groups of pupils from each year in a form, getting support from kids of different ages. Their website says:

Schools with vertical tutoring have recorded a reduction in bullying and an improvement in student behaviour.

I don't know much about it - does anyone know if it helps? It's an interesting idea.

grumpyoldbat · 29/07/2013 11:47

I don't think in practice you can call them on it. The tables just get turned and you get accused of bullying.

I've got to the stage that I know the only way to survive is to accept that I'll never be liked, accept that everyone is above me and turn the hatred inwards to avoid the risk of exploding at them and saying something I'll regret.

Currently at work there's a colleague who delights in announcing how thick I am compared to everyone else. I just try and keep my head down be very nice to her and if it's a particularly bad shift take it out on myself when I get home.

YouTheCat · 29/07/2013 11:51

Grumpy, that is bloody awful!

I don't get bullied at work. I just get ignored.

Bumblequeen · 29/07/2013 11:53

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at poster's request.

MurderOfGoths · 29/07/2013 12:05

Here's something depressing, after my mum died I found an old school report, one where the parent fills in a bit and then sends it back. All of the comments from teachers were saying things like "MoG isn't her usual self, her grades are slipping". Mum's reply was to tell them that she would be coming in because she knew they weren't trying to help me.

Sad to know that even my mum (usually the most placid person) losing her temper wasn't enough for the school to attempt to do anything. Instead I got repeated punishments for not being up to scratch.

antsypants · 29/07/2013 12:44

I think it is either in your nature to physically defend yourself or it isn't, and people should not feel forced into doing so, I am not a violent person by any means, but my family all were, so I coped with it alone, the one time I spoke up about it, my grandmother ended up at the school and threatened the head teacher and the parent of the main protagonist, I wasn't bullied there anymore by the girl, but the teachers were quite happy singling me out, making fun at me and letting the class laugh at their remarks, I was only about six years old and learned there and then to never say anything.

Instead I took my grandmothers advice and ended up fighting anyone who said anything, it isn't my default setting, so I found it really upsetting and frighting, as well as leaving me feeling like shit, and this was not for one occasion, this was 13 years of occasions.

I always tell my little one to speak to the teacher if anyone upsets her, but I worry about how to deal with this if it becomes an issue at all when she gets older, fingers crossed it won't but if it does, I hate the idea of pushing my confident, funny little oddball baby girl to punching, or verbally tearing strips of people just so she can go to her legally required education safely.

I think there are many strategies that work, but they only work when everyone is on board, the administration, the ground staff, the parents and the other children, without it, it just gets hidden.

antsypants · 29/07/2013 12:45

oddball? i don't know where that came from...

courgetteDOTcom · 29/07/2013 12:49

Thinking about the OP, does it feel to anyone else those of us who were bullied were called stupid? I guess we deserved it. I'm not stupid but I know plenty of kids who bullied me were.

BOF · 29/07/2013 12:56

Grumpyoldbat, I'm sure I recognise your posting style, and the way that you describe being persecuted by absolutely everybody in your life, be they family, strangers, professionals, colleagues, MNers...

If it has got to the point where your feelings have so overwhelmed you that you are self-harming, then I think you desperately need some medical help and psychiatric support.

Nobody on here can tell how grounded in reality or perception your experiences are, but if you have got to self-harm to cope, you need intervention as a matter of urgency.

Perhaps think about a support thread in MH too? It's not a substitute for the doctor though. I hope you are able to ask for help.

grumpyoldbat · 29/07/2013 12:58

Now you mention it courgette it does but then I'm thick and all the bad things I've experienced have always been my fault. Deserving all I get is all I've ever known, it's the standard response and attitude from normal people.

Bumblequeen · 29/07/2013 13:05

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at poster's request.

garlicagain · 29/07/2013 13:11

Oh, grumpy :( :( It can't possibly be true, you know. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect, and deserves to be properly heard. Please ask your doctor for a counselling referral - it can make a huge difference.

Just for today, treat yourself like the precious person you are.

Have a look at the "bill of rights", here: h2g2.com/approved_entry/A2998551

&#10084 &#10084 &#10084 &#10084 &#10084 &#10084

Original poster
Angora831 · 29/07/2013 14:08

Can't post much due to combination of iPad and dodgy Wifi, but finding most of the replies on this thread very interesting. Just one thought of mine is that punching someone in the face seems to solve the problem for the victim in some cases, but frankly-it didn't stop the bullying from actually happening, and it doesn't prevent reoccurrence (bully moves onto next victim). It must be satisfying, but from a teacher point of view, I think the key is to stop bullying before it starts.

I also posted this topic on another forum on one of the posters there said that, in her opinion, bullying is a spectrum, and it's not always so black and white. I don't think there's anyone in MN who's never excluded anyone, spread gossip, called someone a name ("shit teacher" springs to mind!), picked on a sibling, made a face at someone etc. whether online or IRL. Basically, it's a rare person who has never bullied someone or enabled a bully. It's an interesting way of looking at things.

OP posts:
grumpyoldbat · 29/07/2013 14:29

The only times I've said something mean to someone is when I've lost it, snapped and answered back to their sniping. Never been proud of those moments I spend most of my time going out of my way to stop people feeling the way I do.

I guess it does make me a bully, something else to feel guilty about :(.