to be sad when somebody posts on here about some hideous piece of behaviour from somebody between the ages of 13 and 19, and

[curlew]

there's a flood of "that's normal teenage behaviour" posts.

It isn't. Most teenagers, like most people are lovely. But if they are allowed to behave like brats and get away with it because "that's what teens are like" then they will be brats. And it becomes a vicious circle.

Expect civilised behaviour. Don't accept anything else. Teenagers deserve it.

I have DD who from age 13 to 15 committed every teenage sin due to man. She has two loving parents, extremely loving extended family, no health issues, no money issues, etc.
She was uncontrollable. We involved every agency available and no one had any answers ( god knows we tried).
DS has never put a foot wrong.
Thankfully she is now 18 and the loveliest young woman ever.
The hardest lesson I have ever learned is that if your teen decides to self destruct, there is nothing you can do about it except hang in there and hope for better times.
Anyone who believes differently is quite frankly deluded.

Cory it's that human belief in a Just World. If something bad happens, it must be the someone's fault, otherwise bad things can happen to anyone . And that person could be you.

We are a close, stable family. No one gets smacked, there is seldom any shouting and we talk. A lot.

When I used to read about drink, drugs and out of control teens, it was so far removed from my picture of how my children would turn out, I would smugly turn the page, because I knew stuff like that didn't happen to families like our's.

When DS1 first showed signs of bad behaviour, we clamped down and demanded respect. But as it spiralled out of control, and he crossed the line so far that we needed a bus ride to get back to the bloody line, we realised that, yes, bad things do happen to nice families.

agree Corey's post.

Well...My teen DD, is positively perfect in every possible way.

I take all credit for her flawless and impeccable manners, charm, intelligence, beauty and witty repartee.

If anyone would like some pointers, I would be happy to share my secret of success...for a very small fee.

Aaaaand then I woke up!

I'm very blessed to have a great DD but we she can have 'typical teenage' behaviours and attitudes. This isn't simply 'whose responsibility is it when a teen behaves outside of the expectations of their parents?'

It's the good old Nature/ Nurture argument. With a massive side of hormones thrown in. It's bloody hard being a teenager.

Well said Feegle. it's like living with Jekyll and Hyde I find. But on the whole he's a good kid.

You know Bonsoir - you have actually made me cry today, and that doesn't happen very often.

You should talk to my teenage dd. She is bullying and abusive, lazy and manipulative. She also blames us for her behaviour. She says 'It's not my fault, you made me this way'. She's unable to explain how or why. Maybe you could explain what we've done wrong?

We are a loving family. We've always taken an interest in her education, listened to her, given her love, and boundaries. I wasn't aware of being 'slack', but obviously I must be. As must DH. Can you explain how this 'slackness' manifests itself in relation to parenting teens? Because I thought I was doing the right thing in relation to my dd.

"When DS1 first showed signs of bad behaviour, we clamped down and demanded respect. But as it spiralled out of control, and he crossed the line so far that we needed a bus ride to get back to the bloody line, we realised that, yes, bad things do happen to nice families."

This. Exactly.

Don't let Bonsoir's goady declarations get to you, Minifingers. I think she's just wanting everyone to pat her on the back and say "clever girl".

Minifingers

I am reminded of various conversations with family therapists over the years. All along the lines of:

-Would you consider trying not to do x next time? I know it is hard but how would you feel about it?

I am so sorry that my thread, which was intended to be a defence of teenagers, has turned into an opportunity for sniping at parents. Please don't be upset by the unpleasant comments- the poster concerned is famous for them.

Actually, an opportunity for sniping at mothers. Fathers seem to get off pretty scot-free.

Not your fault, curlew. I think you are absolutely right in saying that we need to start with a positive premiss of high expectations. And then take it from there.

Just as we have to start with the assumption that we will have a healthy baby with no serious SN. And then take it from there, deal with what we actually get and try not to apportion blame.

Expecting every child to have SN would clearly be as bad as not being able to accept that one particular individual child actually does- or assuming that if it does it must be somebody's fault.

And you are very right about fathers: no evil has ever been caused by a father going out to work.

The parents of the teens on my caseload are a mixture. Many are inadequately parented; many have very good parents who just don't know what to do about the situation they find themselves in.

One of my DSs appears to be presenting with signs of emerging EBD. It could be a phase; knowing him as I do I'm not sure. I'm not the best parent, but I'm certainly not a bad one and the idea that you always reap exactly what you sow (propagated by some posters here) is risible.

And Maryz I take my hat off to you. You make me feel like making a referral to MN for some of my lovely parents who are at their wits' end.

Oh Mini I am sorry that this thread has made you cry. I feel pleased in a way for Bonsoir, that she doesn't understand how family life can break down, out of the blue, with no real dysfunctional background. She is operating from a little safe bubble, and I hope she never has to go through any of this with her children.

You and I, and all the other distressed parents out there - we know how it really is. How it can turn from 'Sorry Mum' to ' Fuck off, Mum' in such a short amount of time, and how no amount of grounding, pocket money withholding or love bombing or whatever well-meaning stuff everyone else suggests, will halt this slide into chaos.

BTW many professionals and family members suggested it was the birth of DS2 that sent DS1 off the rails ( big age gap, my pregnancy sort of coincided with DS1 starting to play up)

I am still at a loss to know what I am supposed to do about that...

I used to be a teenager and although it was a very long time ago I remember it well and would not repeat the experience for all the tea in China.

At no other time in my life have I had to manage the expectations of 11 teachers, two parents, 3 younger siblings, extended family, new groups of friends, boyfriends while discovering who I am, processing a huge amount of knowledge that requires me to question what I previously thought I knew. Add to that a shift in my circadian rhythm, the arrival of a whole lot of hormones and the fact that adults openly displayed mistrust and hostility when more than 2 of us would gathered together in public.

It is a nightmarish time for immature people, proven by the suicide and poor mental health figures for teens. I'm not saying that all behaviour should be tolerated, but they need to be cut some slack and handled sensitively.

Put him back, Laura, put him back!

Corey If only...

Well, as it's come to people being actually moved to tears by some of those posts, I feel it is time to say that ever since I saw Bonsoir the lone poster on an AIBU saying it would be a good thing not to invite a not-very-popular child to a party that the rest of the class was invited to, because then that child could reflect on why she wasn't very popular, I have had no time for any of her advice or comments.

Those are not the words of someone who knows anything about children, or who cares much about anyone, and this is undoubtedly bad form and all that, but some posts are so dreadful that you can't help viewing someone through a certain lense after them.

Do not be upset, mini and the rest of you who have had tough times with your teenagers - you know what you're talking about.

curlew. I dont get it. It you were not talking about parents, who were you talking about?