to be sad when somebody posts on here about some hideous piece of behaviour from somebody between the ages of 13 and 19, and

[curlew]

there's a flood of "that's normal teenage behaviour" posts.

It isn't. Most teenagers, like most people are lovely. But if they are allowed to behave like brats and get away with it because "that's what teens are like" then they will be brats. And it becomes a vicious circle.

Expect civilised behaviour. Don't accept anything else. Teenagers deserve it.

Cory
YY to these difficulties also been an opportunity for learning for these teenagers.

unacceptable

I know where I went wrong now, thanks Bonsoir, I never got the 'user manual' .... these are children/teens not some domestic appliance

"Still aiming high curlew, for all you know she started with percussion."

Nooooooo! Please not a tympanist!

It's interesting that you should acknowledge that each child is different, but seem unable to concede that these differences might mean that the "user manual" (to unwillingly borrow your term) is written in a language you understand one day and is transformed into something unintelligible the next.

It is also really interesting to me that you are so certain that you are right. Maybe that's what give you such insight into teenagers' behaviour - though they do eventually learn that they are sometimes wrong.

I would love you to meet my dd - she'd have a field day.

Bonsoir Tue 16-Jul-13 11:51:01
"Why, cory, do you find it so inacceptable for people to recognise that they have useful skills that they are happy to share (when asked, for free) with others?"

Nothing unacceptable in having skills and sharing them. It's the smug prose style. I wouldn't like to see that in an offspring of mine.

I have teenage twins. One has never missed a day of school, is polite, courteous and has never answered me back. The other never goes to school, swears at me and has started stealing.

Please let me know which child represents his upbringing, smart-arses

Which is perhaps why, cory, you don't inspire confidence in others.

Yes, that's true Bonsoir. Your style is certainly inspiring huge confidence here isn't it?

...and that cory? cor! You can't rely on anything she says.

You are not taking this thread seriously enough curlew. Perhaps your mind is otherwise occupied?

www.thenightowlmama.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Animal-rockin-on-the-drums.jpg

In all fairness, Bonsoir (yes, a twatty opening statement, but true) I wouldn't come to you for advice on how to deal with my budding tween, with SN who is being very unpleasant and difficult, at the moment, because most of what you said would sound trite and meaningless. I would ask someone who had BTDT and survived to wear the t-shirt. Even then, their advice may, or may not, be useful.

And, most of the time, I don't need someone to give me advice, but simply to listen and to help me get it all out of my system, so I have the strength to deal with one act of defiance or oppositional behaviour after firmly and appropriately, with patience and good humour without either losing my rag or all my marbles, or both.

Quite often, someone who is having to deal with a difficult child or teen, for whatever reason, is doing some pretty sophisticated parenting, way beyond the simple real of counting to 3 and using reward charts or naughty steps. That is exhausting. And quite often, we are having to deal with the fact that there are certain things that we cannot control or "parent" away, and that can be quite crushing.

one act... after another.

need lunch :o

I don't think foul behaviour should be 'expected' of a teen. They do have more to contend with though as a direct result of real physiological changes in the brain. I still expect mine to treat other people well, although I understand they find this harder when they're feeling moody. Just like a peri menopausal/menopausal woman can't just be foul to everyone they meet for a few years 'it's my hormones, though, innit?'

There are certain functional brain changes in teens which have been seen with PET scanning. There is a lot of rewiring going on so that the brain becomes more mature. The prefrontal cortex is slowed down, so they have a tendency to risk taking behaviour and impulsiveness, a bit like when an adult is drunk.

They also have a genuine disturbance in their sleep cycles, staying up later and sleeping in longer. Hormonal influences on behaviour is very real, and can be seen in all animals. So teens do have a lot to contend with.

However, I do think that modern parenting plays a large part, in that many people overdo parenting in preteens, doing things for them which they are easily able to do themselves. They then fail to be responsible for their own things and behaviour, time management and so on, and are in effect underprepared for being a teen. If parents continue to try to control their teens lives as they get older the child rightly resents this and problems can start.

So the teen is caught being fairly clueless about being independent, but at the same time desperate to find their own feet. The parent finds it hard to trust their teen to look after themselves as they are used to picking up after them, nagging and organising them.

This combined with the hormonal and rewiring glitches can cause problems in behaviour. I do think how a parent responds has a huge effect on how the teen will behave.

We have always tried to give all our dcs as much independence, trust and responsibilities as possible for their ages. I think it gives them less to rebel against. So far we have two teens who are a pleasure to live with, but still two to go through this phase. So I expect people are hoping my younger two give me a run for my money

Bonsoir,you've intentionally brought a hilarity to this thread,it really is funny to see someone so convinced they are superior when in actual fact they are an inexperienced novice.It's like watching a non-driver trying to convince others that everyone in town refers to them when learning to drive a 40-ton truck ...you seem a tad deluded

musicismylife,that's a brilliant point!

Some people do talk a load of bollocks - always, perhaps it doesn't look like bollocks from inside their bubble or perhaps their bubble isn't quite how they would like it so they make themselves feel better by telling everyone else how they're doing it so wrong.

That's just Bonsoir and her attitude. Behaving a bit like a teenager. Not civilised but not worth engaging with over this either. She'll grow up and she'll find out. (I'm available fir inspirational talks, motivational seminars and general life coaching. Speak to my PA.)

In my case I'm not sure that my parents were 100% to blame although it felt like that at the time. Despite being in the top sets at school, I wanted to fit in with the popular kids and started smoking, taking drugs and shoplifting. My bad attitude was there before I was raped by a boyfriend, it did get worse. I hit rock bottom with a suicide attempt and thanks to my good friends and family I turned it around.
It's unfair to blame my parenting on this, yes they were strict but I'm not sure how they could have stopped this awful time of my life.

"Quite often, someone who is having to deal with a difficult child or teen, for whatever reason, is doing some pretty sophisticated parenting, way beyond the simple real of counting to 3 and using reward charts or naughty steps."

This.

The confident/convinced of her own methods/textbook authoritative woman that was my mother after her first child would not have had a lot to teach the battle scarred, weary but infinitely more experienced woman that was my mother after her fourth child.

And even after 4 children, there are limits to what she can teach me, because she has never had the experience of bringing up a child with severe anxiety issues and SN. There were limits to what she could teach my db because she had no experience of bringing up an adolescent who had been abandoned by her father and traumatised by several of her school friends perishing in a horrendous fire.

If I want to learn to climb the Mount Everest I won't ask for lessons for somebody who goes for walks up St Catherine's Hill on a Sunday: I'll ask somebody who has been up a real mountain.

"from somebody"

I'll ask somebody who has been up a real mountain

YY, Cory

'If I want to learn to climb the Mount Everest I won't ask for lessons for somebody who goes for walks up St Catherine's Hill on a Sunday: I'll ask somebody who has been up a real mountain.'

That's it exactly,Cory (even with the typo )

Climbing up the Everest is just following the travel guide, surely? Just do the right training. Piece of cake.

I'm not a parent of teens.

I once was a teen, and I still remember all the boundary pushing which in hindsight was pretty mean and nasty. It was pretty standard within my friendship group, and we were all 'normal' teens.

I was parented very well, but I sometimes rebelled and argued and stomped off and cried about how unfair life was.

It's perfectly possible to have climbed a mountain without injuring yourself because you are a skilled climber and have plenty of insight into the ascent. Personally, I would always ask a skilled climber over someone who had sustained multiple injuries on the way.

But on the other hand if all you wanted to do was climb Glastonbury Tor, you wouldn't need an experienced mountaineer. You'd need the Sunday Times Guide to Jolly Walks.

Likewise if you need parenting Teens 101 'AIBU to ask them to do the washing up' you don't need a grizzled veteran of hardline battles.
You need someone for whom that has loomed large in their lives as a parenting challenge overcome.