to be sad when somebody posts on here about some hideous piece of behaviour from somebody between the ages of 13 and 19, and

[curlew]

there's a flood of "that's normal teenage behaviour" posts.

It isn't. Most teenagers, like most people are lovely. But if they are allowed to behave like brats and get away with it because "that's what teens are like" then they will be brats. And it becomes a vicious circle.

Expect civilised behaviour. Don't accept anything else. Teenagers deserve it.

Bonsoir what on earth makes you think you could successfully parent or advise the parents of all teenagers when you only have experience with one or two types of teenager? It's like someone who has only climbed Snowdon trying to talk about mountaineering to someone who is struggling with Everest. You have no accurate frame of reference only a false sense of confidence installed by succeeding at something rather different.

What do you advise a parent of an autistic teen having major issues? An adoptive parent like me whose child has MAJOR trauma issues causing most of the problems (plus a learning disability hampering everything). What do you say to a parent who you KNOW has always been an excellent parent, whose teen has suddenly gone off the rails with no explanation and NOTHING is making their behaviour better?

Come off it. You have some knowedgable with pretty neurotypical children I think.

And for many teens with major behavioural issues, they just aren't neurotypical AT ALL

Lilka - I haven't made any of those claims!

Bonsoir Tue 16-Jul-13 12:42:31
"It's perfectly possible to have climbed a mountain without injuring yourself because you are a skilled climber and have plenty of insight into the ascent. Personally, I would always ask a skilled climber over someone who had sustained multiple injuries on the way."

I think you misunderstood my analogy. It was the off-the-rails or problem teen I meant by the mountain. Not parenting any teen. The normal, stroppy but not out of control teen was St Catherine's Hill (may leave you slightly breathless but is unlikely to kill you).

There are situations that are likely to cause frost damage in pretty well anybody. If you find yourself in one of them, you want to know what to do about frost damage.

"Eyesunderarock Tue 16-Jul-13 12:45:23
But on the other hand if all you wanted to do was climb Glastonbury Tor, you wouldn't need an experienced mountaineer. You'd need the Sunday Times Guide to Jolly Walks.

Likewise if you need parenting Teens 101 'AIBU to ask them to do the washing up' you don't need a grizzled veteran of hardline battles."

You mean you get to choose? I could have chosen the Jolly Walks teenager instead of the one whose severe anxiety problems has led to two suicide attempts so far?

The difference is, when I set out on a Sunday for my hillwalking, I know whether I am heading for Winchester or the Himalayas. With my teen, I had no means of knowing. I assumed that any child sharing my genes and parented by me, according to the methods that had turned out countless well adjusted and safe teens in my family, would have certain traits. This turned out not to be the case.

Well then why say I shall just carry on being everyone's first port of call for their problem teens

Everyone's. Not some people's. Everyone's.

Why are you so very sure that the teen is the problem, not the parents? I have a living, walking example of the teen who was exposed to two very different sorts of parenting right here in front of me and we all know that it could have been a car crash rather than a trophy.

Maryz - you have absolutely no idea of what I have been exposed to. So please don't claim that you do.

Also, in my experience, it's just NOT TRUE to say most teens behavioural issues could have been changed by different parenting

Because in my experience it's children with special needs who encounter significant issues in teenagerhood. With a side order of kids who go off the rails for no apparent reason who have excellent parenting.

There is a proportion of teens who have problems who also have crap parents, but it's just so OFFENSIVE to suggest that that is the case for 99% of teens with problems.

Bonsoir,you're not a climber,that's the point.

And I'd listen to the advice of anyone who has climbed a mountain....whether they climbed the ascent perfectly or stumbled along the way.Because I can learn from both...what to aim for,and what to try to avoid.

What I wouldn't bother wasting too much head space to is listening to someone who read a book about mountains,or watched from a distance as others actually did the full uphill climb while sitting back and tutting.

You have no experience of what you are talking about.Just theories on what works in a perfect world.

Newsflash......this isn't a perfect world.

It seems very unwise to make such sweeping statements until you have had at least one child go through his or her teenage years, no matter how confident you may be.

And exactly what knowledge do you have, HildaOgden, that allows you to claim that? Absolutely none.

To be honest, I'd be wary of giving advice or blanket statements about anybody else's child, even if I'd had six come out the other end lovely - it's still not your child or your circumstances.

mary

Is there an issue here about how 'normal' is being used, though? When people reply saying 'that's normal teenage behaviour', I think you can take it two ways:

1. 'normal' as in within the overall parameters of normal - i.e. behaviour that is bad, but which is something most teens do at some point so it doesn't mark them out as an irredeemable psychopath

2. 'normal' as in that can be everyday behaviour for a teenager - i.e. you might not like it but most of them do it so you might be as well to adjust your expectations.

I think a lot of people comment meaning 1) but this sometimes gets read as (2). I also think some people comment about really quite disturbing behaviour as (2) and this puts some posters in a quandary.

Bonsoir, I sometimes agree with your posts.
But sorry, if you havent got teens, then your comments are not relevant as afar as I am concerned.
And to paraphrase you, you are not a skilled climber in this regard, are you?

Yes, there is the expectation a teen should be polite, just as there is the same expectation for a person of any age. But you can't deny it is a time where hormones are all over the place, insecurities become rife and independence is still a juggling act.

All my children sadly went through a pretty traumatic experience in their childhood/early teens. This was never allowed as an excuse for them becoming brats or being rude to anyone. However, it did impact all of them as it was something which they only really understood and were able to deal with when they were in their teens.
Each of them reacted differently and as soon as I saw the signs of my DD2 and DD3 behaving badly, I immediately made it clear to her it is not acceptable behaviour and dealing with her past is no excuse or reason for her to treat others badly.
DD3 went through a stage of being very angry, I parented my arse off to try and stop her taking this out on others. With time, she stopped, she knew there was no allowance or sympathy towards that attitude from me. But she also knew expressing her worries and dealing with her past with professional help was completely acceptable and I was on 'her side', not against her.
I have seen others in similar situations to us but with parents fighting their child, the child's issues became mixed up with teenage behaviour and there was no clear distinction of what is OK and not OK. Leading to parents either excusing teenage behaviour or parents constantly being angry at their child's behaviour, leading to even more issues.

I think while you should never make allowances for 'typical teenage' behaviour, you can't say it only happens because of these expectations. It is a time where mentally children are all over the place and social pressures are intense! When teens have other issues on top, this time is when all those anxieties come to head, and a parent who is sympathetic and supportive of these anxieties but clear what behaviour is not acceptable, rather than fighting the child as a whole, IMO will lead to the best outcomes.

All my children have been good sleepers. Ergo, I am an expert in solving sleep problems, so quick, form an orderly line. You know it's because I am a great parent and you aren't, don't you?

gosh contentious thread.

my 4 teens have been very different and presented very different challenging and lovely behaviour.

I have to say that I would worry more about the teens that are always polite. helpful, lovely and mature because in that case they are either angels, or just going to save it all for a spectacular midlife crisis.

oh and never be smug about your kids as while you are smiling patronisingly at others they are doing stuff behind your back.. 😃

It is a very natural human reaction when we hear of something going wrong to want to distance ourselves from it, to persuade ourselves that it couldn't happen to us because we do X, Y and Z and that makes all the difference. You see it on the threads about the McCanns, you see it on the threads about people drowning.

I always used to feel like that when I read about young people committing suicide or attempting suicide: that it just couldn't (mustn't) happen to us because we loved our dc so much, we communicated so openly, we let them know they could talk to us about everything: in short, we did X, Y and Z.

And then I stood staring down on dd, semi-conscious on the bed with an empty pill chart in her hand, and I knew that I had done X, Y and Z, and that still hadn't stopped her.

(Oh and Bonsoir, for the record- she was not left alone because I was fulfilling my feminist calling and working out of the home: I was at the dentist's having root canal treatment. Just so you know).

'You mean you get to choose? I could have chosen the Jolly Walks teenager instead of the one whose severe anxiety problems has led to two suicide attempts so far?'

Not at all, no one gets to choose what they are given as the raw material.
I'm sorry that my comments were misinterpreted, I obviously wasn't clear enough.
If I was looking for useful advice on managing a teenage Aspie with alcohol and boundary issues, I'd ask someone like Maryz.
Whereas if I was bothered about...um...DD disrespecting my bathroom with makeup everywhere and hogging it for hours, I could ask a number of people who would see that as a huge challenge and be delighted to give me the benefit of their experience.

The problem for me, Eyes, has been that the raw material isn't all in one piece.

Teens can change very quickly, and even the ones with the most challenging behaviour may still need pulling up in the ordinary way- and the most with the most normal, ordinary behaviour may suddenly hit a spot where they need quite unusual managing and slack-cutting.

Dd can take very high expectations in some areas or at certain times and needs unusual levels of support at other times. My very well behaved and well brought up nephew needed sudden understanding at the time of his parent's divorce (some unsuspected bombshells were dropped on him). Both his mum and I needed a range of skills and some pretty quick thinking.

I'm a teacher of 16 to 18 year olds and currently have two that age myself. Mine were born easy. They just were.

A lot of what people worry about on here are little things. How much freedom is too much. Is the levels if disagreement commensurate with others. Most teenagers are perfectly fine outside the family, even those with parents I think a bit lax. Others are just damned tricky which itself sets up conflict with parents. This is not even considering children with SN or other complex issues.

People think mine are good because I'm a good parent. Often they ask me for advice. I know the truth...I am a reasonably adequate parent because my kids are easy. An I think they are easy because they are genetically blessed with an exceptional EQ similar to their Dads. Which is very lucky for me.