to be sad when somebody posts on here about some hideous piece of behaviour from somebody between the ages of 13 and 19, and

[curlew]

there's a flood of "that's normal teenage behaviour" posts.

It isn't. Most teenagers, like most people are lovely. But if they are allowed to behave like brats and get away with it because "that's what teens are like" then they will be brats. And it becomes a vicious circle.

Expect civilised behaviour. Don't accept anything else. Teenagers deserve it.

I'd kind of like to know it's normal actually and just a phase! Dc is prone to toddler style testing at the moment and sulky mood swings, but then can be the 'normal' teen I know well.

"Normal teenage behaviour" - just becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy doesn't it?

Curlew: ^As much as any other parent of teens and very involved aunt of teens.bwhy?^

Yes you said yourself you are a parent of teens - how old are they? And you are a 'very involved aunt'.

Being and aunt and parenting are very different things in my opinion.

"parent of teens"
Could be triplets of 13.

"Very involved aunt of teens"
They live 2 miles away and you babysit them once a week?"

So no, I didnt miss it.
Which is why I asked you my questions, and you have chosen not to answer properly. Your choice, so my post of 10.59am still stands.

Well then surely you will have noticed that all teenagers are individuals,and are effectively at least 2 thirds of the way to being an adult.

Blaming their parents in entirety for any behavioural flaws is as much as a cop-out as allowing any 'bad' behaviour to be dismissed as a teenage phase.

I wish you continued good luck....because yes,some of it is down to luck...in raising your teenagers to never put a foot wrong.You are obviously perfect at bringing up perfect teenagers,well done.

However,before you get too smug,I would issue a word of caution.You may wish to take into account the medical and psychological professions many,many studies...all of which acknowledge the rapid changes (hormonal,physical,psychological) that happen to each and every teenager during those brief years.You may also wish to take on board that those changes do indeed cause 'symptoms' which are usually displayed during that time of life.In the same way you could generalise the symtoms of PMT in a woman (eg sore boobs,fluid retention,snappiness,mood swings,food cravings etc etc),then you can generalise certain behaviours as being 'typical teenage behaviour'.

Although as you seem to have cracked the parenting lark,there is no need for you to be concerned.

(Lets all come back when our kids are 30,we can judge then which parents did better in the long run....the parents who refused to relinquish any control during these years...or the parents who did their best to cut their maturing kids a bit of slack and learned not to sweat the small stuff)

Nobody's paying me any attention anyway.
is your beloved teenager enjoying herself curlew,? Have you heard from her yet?

Also I remember my ex almost crying to me a few years ago about our sons behaviour saying 'this is not normal'.

Neither of us wrote off his behaviour as 'normal' - ever.

Like many parents of off the rails teens we had expected better.

It would be lovely if life was so cut and dried, curlew

Normal teenage behaviour includes: general thoughtlessness, self-centredness, social difficulties such as reading facial expressions/body language. This doesn't mean they get away with: shouting at you because you ask "where are you going - wait isn't that my new bag?" as they leave the door. Which they interpreted as you getting aggressive.
In my family I understand, but also make it clear where behaviour is unacceptable, and usually get an apology (and its getting to be sooner after the event now).

However behaviour such as: throwing heavy objects, punching people etc. Happens a lot but is not "normal teenage behaviour"; its behaviour that has to be dealt with.

Eating a box of chocolates doesn't seem that bad to me in the bigger picture. But if my teens did it, I would expect them to replace it and apologise (I just wouldn't be contacting CAHMS etc.).

You want to play teenager Top Trumps with me? OK, I currently have living with me 4 people between the ages of 13 and 19. 3 of them are between the ages of 15 and 17. Another 2 spend most weekends and some evenings in and out of my house. I gave birth to 3 of them.

Very, very few teen DC have behavioural issues that couldn't have been dealt with by more appropriate parenting, earlier on. Of course there are some. Just not many.

Parenting has been so badly sidelined as a critical skill for society in the so-called feminist revolution that has sent mothers out into the workforce that it is unsurprising that this should be so.

'I think we should all blame the parents.'

I prefer blaming the teenager. It works better for me that way.
Like I said, it's the talisman effect. Many parents believe that if they don't step on all the metaphorical cracks, all will be well.
Yes, expectations of our teens are a large part of how they grow up and what they see as acceptable or not.
Likewise in the words of the ancients
' Shit Happens' and often that is completely out of any parental control or responsibility.

I don't know eyesunderarock. She could have worked her way through the entire string section for all I know!

My DD2 (17) is really difficult to parent sometimes, and often does and says really horrible things. Its not because of my parenting but a few parents still insist on thinking that if I did x, y or z she would be different. But I'm pretty damn sure she wouldn't and that her issues are very very deeply seated. Although actually the judgements and rude comments were far more frequent when she was under teen age.

I DO know teens who have had crappy parenting, still have crappy parenting, and are really struggling. But why assume that ALL teens with behavioural issues have bad parents. It's a horrible attitude to have. And I'm pretty sure its a protection mechanism, because if you kid yourself into believing that children only do a, b, c when they have been badly, then you can make yourself believe that a, b and c will NEVER affect your child, and that makes you feel safe and happy.

But for many of the struggling teens I know, its not like that. Their parents try everything and are just inspirational people, holding on while their child completely self destruct around them. Just look at Maryz's support thread.

I agree with cory basically

Bonsoir I'm shocked at your post.

I must tell my son the reason he went off the rails is all my fault because I'm a feminist and worked outside the home as did his father.

Oh and he's from a 'broken' home, he was fucked from the start as are my daughters would are just about to become teens. I might as well give up now.

Still aiming high curlew, for all you know she started with percussion.

That really is bollocks, bonsoir!

It's not new though. Maybe some people just are lucky, or maybe worst hasn't happened yet. But there are so many teens in our extended family and they're all straight up, decent people without being boring goody goodies. Or maybe the problem is the wrong way round. "Disappointment" and high expectations could create a fertile ground for rebellion. But I am quite in favour of that "overwhelming love" thing which is supposed to solve a lot of toddler-to-teen problems. Love-bombing that's it.

I think curlew has one and is sitting there biting her nails desperately hoping that her parenting will carry her through temptation, oh yes it will won't it, oh please let it be so!

I know the feeling. But in the end, I think it comes down not only to genetics, not only to superior parenting, but to free choice: the choice of the teen. Scary thought, but there it is.

sorry, cross-posted, having problems with my internet connection

Believe you what like. In the mean time, I shall just carry on being everyone's first port of call for their problem teens. Which might just possibly have something to do with the fact that DP and I give pretty good advice to those who ask how we do it.

Raising teens is a little more nuanced than proportioning blame to either the teen, his/her peers or the parents.

Thats better curlew.
Though one mine didnt go into total teenage mode until 17.

Dont know which thread you are taling about though, and a thread about a thread seems to frowned upon sometimes.[I can never work out from MNHQ's pov, which are allowed, and which are not].

So, going back to your op.
Yes, "what teens are like" to escuse all their behaviour is ridiculous.

"Expect civilised behaviour. Dont expect anything else. Teenagers deserve it".
No. That is too broad a statement.

I presume your own kids[and I dont think talking about other people's is the same thing at all, in the slightest] are not perfect.
But you cannot the same behaviour as when they were 10.
Do you from yours? it sounds like it. Which begs the question, what sort of punishments are you giving out to yours when they do minor infringements of your undoubtedly tough rules?