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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think if a man doesn't want a baby he should make it his business to wear a condom

434 replies

JaffaMyCake · 15/07/2013 11:57

A friend of mine has got pregnant off a casual FWB situation. She's ok with this and intends to keep the baby even though she isn't in a relationship with the father.

However the father has gone absolutely ballistic, called her a bitch etc and demands she has an abortion. He's adamant he doesn't want the baby or to pay child support.

The situation regarding contraception is that it was just never discussed and they continually had unprotected sex for about 3 months. He never asked if she was on the pill and she never told him she was.

So AIBU to think if he so adamantly did not want a baby with this woman he should have bloody well used protection, regardless of whether she suggested it or not?

OP posts:
Eyesunderarock · 15/07/2013 14:47

'I think it's really nasty to keep saying poor baby too, you have no idea what the girl is like, her ability to bring up a child, her support network or her financial situation.'

Nothing to do with that at allConfused
Every child should have the right to two parents that love them and who want to be involved in their lives. This child is unlikely to have that, unless the parents can come to an adult agreement about how to handle the consequences of their FWB arrangement.

Namechangingnorma · 15/07/2013 14:48

if the baby doesn't have a meaningful relationship with its father then that again is solely his responsibility, it isn't down to the lady in question, she can only develop her own relationship with her child and make it as easy as possible for the child's father

formicadinosaur · 15/07/2013 14:49

He should take responsibility for his own actions.

Namechangingnorma · 15/07/2013 14:52

eyesunderock - ideally yes but children can still have a loving, well balanced childhood without both parents, just making the point that we know so little about the mother's circumstances.

IneedAsockamnesty · 15/07/2013 14:54

What a load of anti woman bollocks,

He knew it was unprotected as HE didn't wear a condom,he just took the not my problem stance, she knew it was unprotected but the consequences don't matter to her,clearly they do to him so boo hoo his I'm alright jack attitude failed and this time he's not alright.

SarahAndFuck · 15/07/2013 14:54

Why would your opinion change OP? You've already said you think she kept quiet deliberately as she was hoping to get pregnant.

That's not really any different to lying to him about being on the pill.

I still think that both of them are in the wrong if your version of this and your assumptions are correct.

But neither one of them had any more responsibility for using contraception that the other.

If they both ignored it, made assumptions about the other one or didn't both to ask/tell as it suited them not to bother, they are both as bad as each other.

And there's a baby coming into this mess who could have a lifetime of "your father didn't want you/your mother deceived me" to cope with.

MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps · 15/07/2013 14:55

if he genuinely didn't ask... and who the fuck doesn't ask he is an idiot. If he did and they were friends and trusted each other she's a total asshole.

And they are both idiots for thinking unprotected sex with someone you aren't in a relationship with and have no way of knowing their full sexual health is a good idea.

revealall · 15/07/2013 14:56

Namechangingnorma spot on.

Dahlen · 15/07/2013 14:56

What I still don't get - from either of them - is how you can repeatedly 'forget' contraception for a whole 3 months' worth of unprotected sex. Confused Getting carried away in heat of the moment may be one thing, but to carry on for another 3 months? What did they think would happen, especially the woman who can't even use the pathetic excuse of 'assuming' contraception was taken care of.

I stand by my case that she was irresponsible (towards her health, the prospect of pregnancy, and the health of the foetus), immature (unable to broach the subject) and selfish (not considering the emotional consequences for all involved, particularly the baby).

If she did choose to do this deliberately, my sentiments are even stronger. Having a baby as a single parent is not a problem, but if you do it responsibly you should find an amicable co-parent or a sperm donor.

But absolutely none of this takes away from the fact that the man bears 100% responsibility for his own sperm. She didn't rob him of it or pierce a condom. He chose to have unprotected sex (idiotic in itself with a new partner) for a whole three months without checking about contraception. He's entitled to feel anyway he feels - duped or whatever - but that would be abdicating his personal responsibility. We are all responsible for our actions even if you weren't fully aware of all the facts at the time. Ignorance is not an excuse in the eyes of the law when it comes to tax evasion, for example, and let's not forget the old adage "you can't con an honest man".

Ultimately, it doesn't matter who did what. If you consent to sex, you consent to the consequences no matter how much effort you have made to control the outcome. Any resulting baby is the product of two parents and therefore two parents have responsibility.

revealall · 15/07/2013 14:59

MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps they could have been friends for years.

Mine lived with me for 3 years and we were friends 5 years before that. Fully aware of all his partners and he mine.It was a close relationship just not a sexual one (apart from the one time).

EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 15/07/2013 14:59

He is entirely to blame for the situation he is in through his choice not to use a condom. He made a choice to have unprotected sex and that's that.

Her behaviour is also awful but for a different reason. Her motivation does not change the fact that he is responsible for his own situation, however.

themaltesecat · 15/07/2013 15:02

God, it sounds like one of those infernal poems we had written on the toilet wall at school.

One night of pleasure, nine months of pain
Lyin' in hospital, baby without a name...

OP, I agree with you. If he didn't want a baby, he should have worn a condom. It's really rancid not to if you're not in a stable relationship with someone, anyway. Ick.

I can't really congratulate your friend on pulling such a plonker, but hey ho.

EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 15/07/2013 15:04

Can I ask a question? If there was a man pill, how many of you would have a casual relationship and use the man's word that he was on the pill as sole contraception? Even if she had told him she was protected he should still have protected himself and used a condom.

Namechangingnorma · 15/07/2013 15:08

this thread is teaming with misogyny

Eyesunderarock · 15/07/2013 15:11

Really?
I see a lot of posts saying that they are both responsible for their own actions and that if he didn't want to be a father he should have used a condom and that even if he feels trapped and resentful, he is still liable for the consequences of the sex he has had.
Even if she intended to use him as a sperm donor, he made the choice to have unprotected sex for three months.

IneedAsockamnesty · 15/07/2013 15:17

How many of them have passed comment on her as a person and on her future parenting skills?

IneedAsockamnesty · 15/07/2013 15:18

Or the assumption that its about money

Namechangingnorma · 15/07/2013 15:21

agreed Sockreturningpixie

WafflyVersatile · 15/07/2013 15:23

Ehric That's slightly different too because if he told me he'd had the snip and I got pregnant, I still have choices.

If I don't want to get pregnant I can use contraception. If that doesn't work/happen i can get the MAP, if I miss my chance for that I can have an abortion. I can tell him or not tell him. I can give his name to CSA or not.

MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps · 15/07/2013 15:28

I think both of them will be shit parents, and hugely selfish/stupid.

I'm not being sexist.

MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps · 15/07/2013 15:30

I was ready for a baby before dh, so I said to him that I would be going off the pill as I wasn't going to take measures against what I wanted and polutte my body besides.

He had every right to use a condom or not, but he knew where he stood.

If a woman had been told by her partner who wanted a child that he had a vasectomy and he hadn't I'd think the same about the person.

Dahlen · 15/07/2013 15:30

I think it's valid to judge her potential parenting skills TBH - anyone who takes such a long-term cavalier attitude (let's not forget she chose to take this risk repeatedly over the course of three months) to their sexual health is unlikely to make a great parent. Bad decision making in one area of life tends to be mirrored in another. Parenting is the most important job any of us can ever do, and just like jobs, some people are better at it than others.

I still think the man is the greater twat though, because at least the mother is prepared to accept the consequences of her behaviour, unlike him. In her case finding out she is pregnant may at least prove a pivotal moment in her life where she becomes more responsible, whereas in his case he just seems to be trying to run away and behaving more irresponsibly than ever.

FeegleFion · 15/07/2013 15:41

...pretty sure there's a male contraceptive pill now...for those men who really don't want babies.

He's a fucking eejit if he didn't once consider that this woman was, probably, extremely fertile.

They are both consenting, willing participants and are both to blame for the creation of this baby.

I'm pretty outraged at those with the opinion that he's a poor man who has been cruelly trapped by this succubus. Confused

SarahAndFuck · 15/07/2013 15:42

I don't think they will both be shit parents, but I do think they sound like selfish and irresponsible people right now. And it doesn't matter what her motives were or how he feels about it and their financial situation is secondary to how the baby may feel as it grows up if they don't get their act together and put it first from now on.

Men have limited choices. Condom, vasectomy, abstinence. If they don't avail themselves of any of those choices they should not be surprised if a pregnancy or STI results from their sexual activity.

Women (here in GB at least) have more choices, both to prevent a pregnancy in the first place or to continue or end one.

But both parties have to take responsibility for their own contraception.

No contraception is foolproof, not everyone can be relied upon to us contraception properly. Both parties need to take reasonable measures to protect themselves.

Condoms are the only way to prevent an STI if you are sexually active so perhaps calling them contraception is misleading. They should always be worn in a casual relationship to prevent STIs.

No assumptions should be made, perhaps especially by the party who then (and quite rightly) has no say over what to do about any resulting pregnancy.

Pobblewhohasnotoes · 15/07/2013 15:44

Why are people assuming she'll be a shit mum? Her intentions of getting pregnant may not have been great but that doesn't mean her parenting skills won't be.