To think if a man doesn't want a baby he should make it his business to wear a condom

[JaffaMyCake]

A friend of mine has got pregnant off a casual FWB situation. She's ok with this and intends to keep the baby even though she isn't in a relationship with the father.

However the father has gone absolutely ballistic, called her a bitch etc and demands she has an abortion. He's adamant he doesn't want the baby or to pay child support.

The situation regarding contraception is that it was just never discussed and they continually had unprotected sex for about 3 months. He never asked if she was on the pill and she never told him she was.

So AIBU to think if he so adamantly did not want a baby with this woman he should have bloody well used protection, regardless of whether she suggested it or not?

Everyone who has PIV sex should knows that a baby might happen. If they don't want that to happen, then they need to take care of contraception. If they don't, then they are equally responsible for whatever the consequences are. A man cannot not use a condom during PIV sex and then cry 'deception' should his partner become pregnant, regardless of whether his partner has sworn on all that is holy that she is using all possible methods of contraception or not.

To counter clouds, I'm all for men being able to waive their responsibilities as long as the first questions they get asked in that regard are: 1, Did you wear a condom? and 2, If you did and it split/failed, did you go with your partner to get the MAP and watch her swallow it? As long as a man can answer yes to both questions, then he can make the attempt waive his responsibilities, if not, tough!

Both people in the OP have been irresponsible, he because he failed to act like an adult and use some form of contraception and she because she left herself and any potential child at risk of STIs. That being said, she is now pregnant and both people have to be responsible for the sake of the child that will be born.

IfNotNowThenWhen
"And I must say to BoneyBack-this woman was an idiot, yes. But duplicitous? No.
She never told him she was on the pill or similar. He never asked."

FWB would indicate no strings attached sex, that would indicate to me that precautions are being taken.

someone up thread meantioned "lie by omission" and TBH I think that this is what this was.

So he has sex without a condom, women gets pregnant and he stamps his feet about it?

Oh, boo-fucking-hoo..

So if you were just having sex with somehow, you're essentially saying this would indicate to you protection was being used? That's naive. Plus, what about STI's?

Guy was responsible for his fertility and safety, her for hers. Both were equally foolish IMO.

Although if genuinely was just trying to get pregnant (has OP come to clarify?) all stupidity on both parties aside, I do agree she lied by omission. Doesn't change the fact he should have protected himself from pregnancy and disease.

That's why we all need to always use protection in casual sexual relationships. Need to protect ourselves! (Female or male.) You never know someone's motives in a casual relationship or if they are sleeping with others etc.

Someone! Not having sex with somehow

Or, what Pobbles said. That basically sums it up.

He didn't wear a condom. He cannot therefore be angry she wasn't using protection. Double standards on his part.

You never know someone's motives in a casual relationship or if they are sleeping with others etc<

This is what it boils down to.

That being said, she is now pregnant and both people have to be responsible for the sake of the child that will be born<

I don't think it's right that only one party can make the abort call, and the other must support the child no matter what.

As someone who was conceived in similar circumstances I feel sorry for the child. Even a decent bloke wont be able to brush aside the feelings of anger towards the mother and indifference toward the child and be a good dad.

My mother lay with her legs up after casual sex with someone elses husband, to try and trap him into leaving his wife. It didn't work, the bloke ran a mile.

I grew up hearing non stop from my mum what a crap father he was, and on the few occasions I saw him, he would bleat that she trapped him.

For my sake, I 100% blame my mother. I loathe her for it (she was a terrible mother) and I cant feel too strongly about my father. I do feel sort of sorry for him.

I don't have a relationship with him, which Im fine with, although its not what Id want for my own children. He is very generous financially, and I am glad she picked a rich man to steal sperm from.

The man was stupid to assume the woman was on the pill. But the woman behaved shockingly too.

I'm almost more shocked by the notion that a man who doesn't want a child should march his partner to get the MAP (and watch her while she takes it) than I am by the abdication of all responsibility.

Men's choices are limited to whether they have sex or not, and to their own contraception. Those are the only points where they are autonomous.

^^
I'm surprised by the number of women on here who think a woman has an absolute right to have a baby regardless of the father's wishes.

Do these women really think that a father who feels is going to turn into a loving, supportive dad who will happily give time, money and love to the child?

"DioneTheDiabolistMon 15-Jul-13 22:41:15

So are we saying that there is no such thing as a lie by omission?"

As long as you accept they both lied by ommission in exactly the same way?
Yet people seem to think the man can assume she's on the pill (why the pill, anyway?) But it would be ridiculous for her to assume he's had the snip

I cant help thinking that the way you feel about your children has a lot to do with the way you feel about the person they are conceived by.

Im sure I love my children so much partly because I see my husband in them who I adore. I don't think Id feel the same if the father was a casual relationship who didn't want a child.

From a fathers point of view, if his first reaction is horror rather than delight, surely that will affect the long term feelings? Don't all children at least deserve the chance of that?

I personally always felt inferior growing up in a single parent family, like it was a bit seedy. I know it happens, but its hardly ideal, and I don't think it should be planned like this

Goodtouch .. I felt inferior growing up in my two parent family what with all the abuse going on, I'd have LOVED for my drunk of a mother to boot out her wife beating husband .. So think yourself lucky, there is a LOT worse than having a loving parent take care of you ... maybe you should care less about what society thinks and judges and more about how good you had it ... unless your mother was shit of course

oh and I love my kids but their bio is a prat .. I will not blame them for that.

:/

This is so simple really isn't it? Men, don't want a kid wear a condom, get snipped or abstain.

If you do happen to get someone pregnant then no, you should not be able to waiver your rights because once the decision has been made by the women that the pregnancy is going ahead then it becomes about the child and the child shouldn't suffer because you were too stupid to use protection. You helped create a life, suck it up and be a parent.

Sex has risks and you take them every time you have sex, your choice starts and ends there.

My 14 year old knows this.

The women in the OP is an idiot as well.

Two people have unprotected sex. One of them is willing to take responsibility for the consequences and the other one chooses to whine and bleat and blame instead.

It's his own fault.

I am going to show this thread to my sons.

It is disgraceful behaviour by the OPs friend if she was secretly trying to get pregnant and it was idiotic behaviour by the 'boyfriend'.

It is a very sad situation and it is unfair on the child. There is nothing wrong in deciding to be a single parent but there is if it involves deceiving someone.

I thought Dahlens and chubblinas post were excellent.

Er OK teetering, you had a worse time than me. Happy now?

Single parent/split families are embarrassing for everyone IMO.

I think its wrong that there is never any intention to be a family, its not fair on the child

Single parent/split families are embarrassing for everyone IMO.

Not true! I don't think people are embarrassed by having single parents. I don't, but if my DP divorced I wouldn't be embarrassed. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding, that just seems to be quite a sweeping judgement there.

Lots of single parents have relived DC they left an abusive parent, for example.

Or do you mean a 'accidentally-on-purpose' pregnancies are embarrassing? I don't have any experience with that so wouldn't know.

Captchaos What if the woman refuses to take the MAP? Is he supposed to hold her down and force feed it to her?

Incidentally I refuse to take the MAP (due to implications involving fertilised eggs). I also would unilaterally make the decision about keeping the baby.

(In my defence because of this I have never had a ONS, all boyfriends I have slept with have had this explained to them pre bouncy cuddles and I have always always been very careful about contraception.)

It doesn't apply in this case but I do think that in a long term (as in someone you would refer to as "my partner" or "my husband") then there does need to be trust over contraception.

So if the couple agree that they want to use hormonal contraception rather than condoms then he has the right to expect her not to decide to stop taking it without telling him because she wants a baby. Just as she has the right to expect him to not sh@g everyone he meets and give her an STI.

It's avert sad world otherwise.

I think sometimes people just need to accept we cannot try and put fair and just laws on biology. Biology dictates the man gives semen and the woman gets pregnant.

The only way to have a 'fair' system would be to implement forced contraception and forced abortions or forced births... Which I sincerely doubt anyone actually agrees with. That isn't fair to the woman. There is no system that is 'fair' to the parents, that's why we do our best to adopt a system that allows as much risk management as possible, and if pregnancy happens, it happens and is then about what is best for the child.

There is no 'fair' in biology. We all know the risks. We all know appropriate measures against the risks. Even if we do take the appropriate measures (which no one here did) pregnancy and STI's and still happen.

Now the only 'fair' system is to take care of the child.

IMO, it should stay that way. Educate as much as possible about the risks, offer alternatives for women who do not a pregnancy, and after that it's all about what is best for the child.

I don't think there can be a fairer system than that TBH.

"that just seems to be quite a sweeping judgement there"

Sure, OK, not for everyone in life, I meant everyone in the family. Some people might be laid back about things like that, but as a child I was embarrassed (why dont you have a daddy? etc) and Id be even more embarrassed about being a single parent as an adult

As for men 'opting out' of pregnancies they don't wat? Again, unfair on the child. The law accepts a man can feck off on his child, but he must financially help the life he was 50% on making.

CSA isn't about the mum, it's about what's best for the child.

For example - having "father unknown" (because he refused to sign) on my birth certificate felt as bad to me as "mother is an indiscriminate slut" or "child not planned/unwanted"