to take my DS out of pre school because they say he is needs 'extra support'.

[Elvisina]

My 3 yr old DS has always been on the lively side! His idea of heaven is being allowed to just run through a park, woods or along a beach, preferably with some older children. He very rarely shows an interest in any kind of ?mark making? (despite our best efforts ? we have enough arts and crafts stuff in this house to start up our own nursery). He had been quite a few months behind with his speech but his language has recently taken off in a big way! A recent visit to a speech therapist reassured me he is/will be fine.
Anyway, this April he started at a local pre school for 2 and a half days a week. It?s a new pre school that is attached to a primary school which only opened 2 years ago. They?ve just received a very good Ofsted and the resources are great. I was so delighted to get him in there and he absolutely loves it, running into the playground each morning with a massive smile on his face. However, over the last few weeks, I?ve been feeling increasingly uneasy about how they think he?s doing. Whenever I made a friendly enquiry to his teacher I?ve had rather crisp, negative responses such as ?He doesn?t like joining in activities, especially if they?re led by an adult. He?s just not really ready? and ?I?m like a broken record having to tell him all the time to put his coat on?. Nothing positive (and I know I?m biased but he is damn cute!). Last week I decided to phone up for a chat about how he?s doing, basically expecting some reassurance along the lines of, ?he?s happy and friendly and we?re working on getting him to use his ?listening ears?? etc however it turned into a serious talk about how they have been preparing documentation to get him ?extra support? because he wants to play outside all the time and doesn?t want to join in the teacher led activities. Language such as ?he needs a different learning path? was used. Apparently he stood out from the other children who were all happy to listen to teacher led activities. I was devastated and I know it?s ridiculous but I cried! It really hurt that they felt he was so different from the others. I mentioned that I had noticed there were loads more girls than boys and she said she hadn?t noticed this as a particular issue but in his class picture on their website there are 9 girls and 3 boys!

My DH thinks we should just accept the extra help and not worry about it but I now feel as though perhaps this isn?t the place for my DS. I don?t even feel as though they like him very much. I took him out of a lovely, friendly nursery where they seemed to really ?get? him and like him to go to this new pre school. I?m now considering sending him back there. Thing is, he loves it and I could be doing him a disservice by not letting him have this ?extra support?. I honestly hadn?t realised that he would be required to take part in so many teacher led activities. I thought he got to play all day! What?s wrong with him wanting to play outside for 2 hours pretending to be a pirate? (I?m a teacher myself ? secondary ? so should have known better really). I keep looking at my wonderful boy who I honestly, honestly, honestly don?t think there is anything wrong with and feeling upset that they?ve made me feel as though he is somehow ?failing?/different. I?m going in next week to observe him and discuss his ?learning path? but actually I just feel like I want to remove him. Would that be ridiculously unreasonable of me? Am I just being too sensitive?

not read the whole thread but wanted to say...

my brother/sister-in-laws moved their pre-school child from pre-school to pre-school because, I assume, they didn't like the fact that they were being told their child had a problem with his speech. He was a first child and it was glaringly obvious to anyone with any vague knowledge of how children develop that there was something wrong.

He was eventually statemented but had to wait a whole academic year to get into the school that was considered best for his needs - a 'normal' school with a speech and language unit. Had they accepted he needed support earlier, he would have gone to that school from day one. Once his speech was sorted, he continued his education alongside his peers without any trouble whatsover, except to say that he is now 'below average' in everything he does. Whether he is below average as a result of the difficulties in the early years is hard to say, but why wouldn't you get your child the necessary support if the experts are saying he needs it?

I get the 'square peg in a round hole' theory but he's in a school pre-school where at least one member of staff will be a qualified teacher. He/she will have seen a lot of children. He/she has been educated to know when someone is that 'square peg in a round hole' and what to do about it.

It is horribly familiar on here.
SN deniers. Those who are basically making out that parents of SN children haven't put in enough effort or are creating fake dxes for resources.

Bit disgusting, really.

I do know of at least two children whose parents denied there was anything wrong. One has a strong genetic history of ASD in the family and now has a suicidal teen in mainstream secondary school and not coping.

But no, he's just a BOY dontcha know!

By writing him off I mean stating he is in a different learning pathway to his peers. How the hell do they come up with that!

Oh and my last post is not saying in any way that I think I have the capability to dx the OP's child with SN. Of course I don't.

Thing is he could have. But then again he may not.
Early intervention will do no harm at all. Failure to put this into place could cause long term problems.

What is so wrong with differentiating the curriculum to meet his needs?
That's done for a lot of kids, for a lot of different reasons.

Mabey he is gobby and mabey not. Mabey he needs a bit of extra support or mabey a statement but I jst don't like the schools atttude

Piglet Im not suggesting that the OPs son does have SNs. I don't know him! but the pre school setting have concerns and it wont hurt to engage with them on this, it may well amount to nothing and all will be well, or...he could need this help and it will be great that he has accessed it so early on.

GobbySadcase re SN deniers, I agree, just shows they know fuck all really.

TBF we only have the OPs version of a telephone call that she found upsetting to guage the schools 'attitude'

I don't mean that as a sleight on the OP at all, I am well aware myself how hard it can be hearing your child spoken about.

cos support is handed out left, right and centre dontcha know!
That's why it took FOUR YEARS to get DS2 a statement and into Special Provision.

I agree Amber I was in the same position as op when dd was 3, but her needs were significant and quite apparent, seeing just how different to her peers she was hammered home to me the realities and as time got on it came even more so. I am ever grateful to the head of dd mainstream school for recognising the problems and getting her help, even pressuring LEA to get her a place at the much converted School for autism where,though she is in a different learning pathway to her nt peers, she is thriving and making so much progress.

Sorry cory yes, I did say your name when I meant Malcolmtucker

Really gobby dd had te right support from the word go and for that I will be indebted op te head teacher of her mainstream school for fighting for provision for her. Head teacher has a dd with autism too.

It's tricky striking a balance between 'they are trained so listen' and 'parents gut feel / other motivations at work'

Be open to what they are saying but also be open to the way they interact and perceive your son. If you get the feeling they don't like him, then I do think it's worth thinking about that.

My Ds (3) went to a nursery near my work and I moved him at 26 months as I felt they didn't actually like him and were labeling him very wrongly which felt part abd parcel of their dislike. They said he was probably autistic/ on the spectrum as he never spoke/ never joined in with others/ stood by the wall not interacting / and showed no preference with adults, trying to go home with any patent indiscriminately. I was really shocked and very concerned. Was really taking it seriously though was confused as it was so different from how he was at home.

Then they told me 'he s going to grow up to be a follower not a leader, he's not one of life's leaders, he's not quick and never does anything first' and I started to question their professionalism rather alot! They were seeing what they wanted to see as they had decided he was a problem / not very nice. From the off they had problems with him because he didn't have a favourite stuffed toy/ blanket and didn't take a dummy, and was really difficult to get him to nap. They labelled him as difficult and never recovered from there!

I removed him and gosh, no problems since. He still ignores people he doesn't like (v rarely happens, its only people who dont like him that he reacts to) and still stands waiting to go if he's not happy in a situation rather than screaming the place down ... It was being unhappy that was making him behave like that all the time at nursery. Now we can see that in a context of being generally a very happy articulate active little boy.

I'm so glad that I didn't listen to the nursery staff. They were trained, but they had their own prejudices and couldn't rise above them in their perceptions of my son.

We stick children in formal settings SO early in this country. They are expecting a 3 year old to sit still and listen for most of the day instead of going off and playing. Maybe most kids knuckle down and do this, but it doesn't mean it is a good thing. In Scandinavia children start formal learning only at 6 or even 7 years old, and there isn't this crazy problem of immaturity being signalled as a special need. Here we write so many kids off (boys in particular) because they aren't able to sit still and hold a pen and listen at age 3 or 4. It seems completely insane to me.

A little boy I know was receiving terrible reports from school, couldn't sit still and just wasn't learning to read at all, and there were all sorts of mutterings from teachers about SEN. His mum was going crazy with worry. Well he was an August born boy and when he turned 6, bingo the reading clicked. By that point he'd already virtually written himself off as stupid. It made me so cross.

OP I'd absolutely go with your instinct on this. As to the professional opinion of the pre-school teacher, I'd say it is worth diddly-squat if she is complaining that a 3 year old boy is unable to sit and listen - especially if he was doing fine in his previous setting.

piglet - yes... and this is after he'd put himself and others at danger several times in Mainstream.

We also had a supportive head but West Sussex County Council refused to statutory assess for quite a while. We really had to fight.

Piglet, my son was 5 years in the system before he got the help/dx that he needed.

Sorry if it's already been covered, but when is he due to start reception, and what age will he be then?

Assuming OP wishes to start him at school at the usual time (rather than wait til he's 5 or homeschool) then if he's enjoying preschool it's probably easiest and fine to leave him there, especially if he's due to start reception in sep 2014.

Another option could be what DS1's very wise preschool keyworker did.
She strongly suspected there was an issue, but before proceeding further asked the HV to come and watch him in the setting without DS1 knowing she was there.

HV had seen him at home and was shocked to the core seeing him at preschool. Children who appear fine at home can be completely different in a preschool/school setting.

When both had concerns, that was when we proceeded to further investigation.

Could that be an option for the OP? Even a keyworker from previous nursery watching him as he is now in the new setting (without him knowing).

I doubt they are expecting him to sit still and listen for most of the day, it will be mostly playing, its just that there will be a certain amount of structure in that they will have snack time, outdoor play time etc.

I'd say go for the extra support. If something is caught early, they can DO something and make sure that by the time he gets to school, it will be better, or help is in place from the start IF there's something to support.

There are obviously serious problems with the way SEN is diagnosed in this country as 12.5% of August born and only 7.1% of September born child have a diagnosis of a mild SEN.

If we are throwing anecdotes about, my Summer born boy supposedly had SEN according to his teachers at 4. Our response was to move him to a different schools where his 'needs' vanished. He is doing really well 10 years later.

three i am an infant teacher but i couldn't see the sen in my own child.

I agree double op should have an open mind, it may be the setting that's the issue not op ds, I totally agree impecu spot on! Tbh have they given you any positives about your ds? If they haven't and it's mostly negative I would do what double did and move setting.

If we are throwing anecdotes about, my Summer born boy supposedly had SEN according to his teachers at 4. Our response was to move him to a different schools where his 'needs' vanished. He is doing really well 10 years later

That's kind of the point.

No teacher is qualified to diagnose, so I assume your sons teachers were suggesting it as a possibility? not diagnosing.

If he'd been assessed then it would have shown he was fine- no harm done.

Here's another anecdote...one of my sons schools said they thought he was fine, didn't need any help at all [despite very obvious problems] His 'needs' were invisible at that school too.

I feel very sorry for teachers who suspect a child needs help, sometimes parents react so badly to the mere suggestion of an issue.

I remember tentatively suggesting there may be a problem to my sons then teacher at his current [good] school, they practically bit my hand off to get me in and go through the referal form.

I got the impression they were working up to broaching it with me when I approached them.

I was just glad my son was being helped.

Gosh amber we were one of te lucky ones, mabey our LEA was not too bad