to take my DS out of pre school because they say he is needs 'extra support'.

[Elvisina]

My 3 yr old DS has always been on the lively side! His idea of heaven is being allowed to just run through a park, woods or along a beach, preferably with some older children. He very rarely shows an interest in any kind of ?mark making? (despite our best efforts ? we have enough arts and crafts stuff in this house to start up our own nursery). He had been quite a few months behind with his speech but his language has recently taken off in a big way! A recent visit to a speech therapist reassured me he is/will be fine.
Anyway, this April he started at a local pre school for 2 and a half days a week. It?s a new pre school that is attached to a primary school which only opened 2 years ago. They?ve just received a very good Ofsted and the resources are great. I was so delighted to get him in there and he absolutely loves it, running into the playground each morning with a massive smile on his face. However, over the last few weeks, I?ve been feeling increasingly uneasy about how they think he?s doing. Whenever I made a friendly enquiry to his teacher I?ve had rather crisp, negative responses such as ?He doesn?t like joining in activities, especially if they?re led by an adult. He?s just not really ready? and ?I?m like a broken record having to tell him all the time to put his coat on?. Nothing positive (and I know I?m biased but he is damn cute!). Last week I decided to phone up for a chat about how he?s doing, basically expecting some reassurance along the lines of, ?he?s happy and friendly and we?re working on getting him to use his ?listening ears?? etc however it turned into a serious talk about how they have been preparing documentation to get him ?extra support? because he wants to play outside all the time and doesn?t want to join in the teacher led activities. Language such as ?he needs a different learning path? was used. Apparently he stood out from the other children who were all happy to listen to teacher led activities. I was devastated and I know it?s ridiculous but I cried! It really hurt that they felt he was so different from the others. I mentioned that I had noticed there were loads more girls than boys and she said she hadn?t noticed this as a particular issue but in his class picture on their website there are 9 girls and 3 boys!

My DH thinks we should just accept the extra help and not worry about it but I now feel as though perhaps this isn?t the place for my DS. I don?t even feel as though they like him very much. I took him out of a lovely, friendly nursery where they seemed to really ?get? him and like him to go to this new pre school. I?m now considering sending him back there. Thing is, he loves it and I could be doing him a disservice by not letting him have this ?extra support?. I honestly hadn?t realised that he would be required to take part in so many teacher led activities. I thought he got to play all day! What?s wrong with him wanting to play outside for 2 hours pretending to be a pirate? (I?m a teacher myself ? secondary ? so should have known better really). I keep looking at my wonderful boy who I honestly, honestly, honestly don?t think there is anything wrong with and feeling upset that they?ve made me feel as though he is somehow ?failing?/different. I?m going in next week to observe him and discuss his ?learning path? but actually I just feel like I want to remove him. Would that be ridiculously unreasonable of me? Am I just being too sensitive?

God yes...well said Kiri! I used to be very naive about this kind of thing. Until my own child needed help. How grateful I am to her brilliant teacher...the one who saw her stress and has now helped her in every way to integrate.

Hear hear kiri.

Very well said Kiri

OP - I have the opposite problem - the school think my instincts that something is up with my DC is wrong; luckily for my DC I have a good GPRS who listened and referred and DC does have extra needs. Id say take the help for now because if it dies turn out that your DC dies have additional needs you'll be kicking yourself in the future. The NHS dies have money to throw away so I doubt your DC will be diagnosed if there isn't anything to actually diagnose.

Aww thanks, that's very nice of you :)

I'm going through that really angry stage at the moment, I'm sure I'll get to resigned acceptance one day

Amberieaf, my language was negative because it reflected an incredibly stressful period of my life where the school was constantly trying to convince me my child had an issue he did not have.

If a school kept insisting that a child should be in a wheelchair when there is nothing wrong with them, that would be abuse. It isn't a criticism of children who use wheelchairs or the parents who had to fight for the funding for that to say so. The same applies to SEN.

Having spent two years being gas lighted by a school insisting my child had a range of problems he did not have, I am aware that happens, and parents should be wary of schools/nurseries raising concerns because it can lead to years of hell for no benefit to the child or family.

In defence of the majority of us who have offered our opinions and tried to help the OP, it was only a select few who suggested their 'wonderful' parenting was the reason why their children are NT.

'SN deniers' is a ludicrous term and I think that poster was goading by insinuating that just because some us feel it might not be SN, that clearly we don't think SN exists. Given the information in the OP, having had experience as an EYFS practitioner, I would not jump to SN in a child that young. Just my opinion!

He is 3 years old! Let the poor little sod run round a field, he's got the rest of his life to sit at a desk and use his listening ears.

My (vvvv cute) son has ASD and pre-school never said a thing! It was me that spotted it. Pre-schools aren't known for being forward about this stuff. If they've picked something up and they want to do something about it - happy days! Better than having to fight for help. Its very odd to think that raising a concern about a child is a criticism.

I find this odd. Why were they putting a referral in for your son without talking to you of their concerns first? You had to ring them to find out this ? I'm really cynical but are you sure there isn't an ulterior motive going on here? Like funding for another member of staff? Just find it all weird? It is amazing how unproffessional some professionals can be!

Thetrack - schools no longer get any additional funding for SEN unless a child has a very high level statement. They have to deal with it all out of a set budget based on the demographics of the intake.

Well exactly ouryve. Which is why ascribing some kind of nefarious motive to them raising concerns is ludicrous. The pre-school has nothing to gain at all.

Would a pre-school even get extra funding?

Most of them are privately run and paid for (excluding the 15 free hours) even if they're associated with schools.

DS1 is at a pre-school on a primary school site - it's still a private setting.

Hi OP, I haven't anything much to add from the already good stuff which has been posted.

However, they are not diagnosing your DS with anything, just looking at how they can meet his individual needs which are different from the other children they have.
There could be a whole host of reasons for this and it might simply be down to an active personality. There is nothing wrong with that at all and I would be comforted that they are recognising his needs and not ignoring them.

He sound like my DS. Huge amount of energy, not interested in mark making. His preschool just describe him as 'full of beans' and his teacher mentioned to me a few days ago that he was starting to join in some of the teacher led activity without being asked 'which is nice' so they don't push if the child doesn't want to. I'm not a childcare professional but 3 is still very young and your DS sounds normal to me. I'd think about changing schools in your situation.

Thank you Kiri for your brilliant post. You said everything I tried to say upthread, but phrased it so much better!

Freya if a school put a child in a wheelchair it would be abuse. But they wouldn't. What they might do is notice problems with a childs mobility and suggest it get checked out. It would be for the medical profession to decide on a wheel chair.

It will be the same here. Th pre-school have their concerns. They would like to refer your DS to someone - could be a SALT, Educational Psycologist, a paediatrician. You don't have to agree to this. But it really is worth listening to what the pre-school have to say. As a parent your views should be important (if you're not listened to then it certainly is a bad pre-school) but also try to listen to what they have to say with an open mind.

I wasn't going to say this as it personal but I raised concerns with my DDs nursery when she was 3
I was dismissed as she is young a bit scatty she will settle when she goes to school
, when she went to school at 4 well she is young (she is a winter birthday that is a younger pupil in scotland) it took me until she was 6 to get the help she needed turns out she has dyspraxia

it is bloody frustrating that the Preschool are offering help to your son and you are refusing or wanting to take him away , In no way am I saying your son has any special needs but the preschool has his best interests at heart you should at least be open to listening to them

Preschools can get extra funding for a child needing extra support, it needs no diagnosis of SN just a fairly simple form filled in and sent to a local panel.

Support from an observation from an Early Years Advisor helps, but they are very often no more qualified than a preschool worker, just more experienced. Remember preschools are run by NVQ3 qualified personnel.

This qualification does not give a great deal of specific training in spotting children with additional needs which is why outside support is sought. The concerns may be justified they may not, but its worth looking into and getting a more qualified view.

As for letting a 3year old run around a field for 3 hours fine, but research the preschool you send your child to if that's what is wanted. Many are run out of public spaces such as village halls and church rooms and keeping children safe with ratios of 1 member of staff to 8 children does not allow for this.

I think it's a really sensitive subject, but I certainty got upset when the nursery raised concerns (already wrote my anecdote up thread!)... But the reason I was upset is that the nursery were saying it as a negative and to justify their problems in handling my son kindly.

It was not because of my attitudes towards SN, as if he had any, I would be biting their hands off to get support!

I was really shocked as was so unexpected, and upset cos I thought I might have missed something or my darling little one was struggling and I was a bad mum for missing something so 'obvious' according to the nursery... I took it seriously though and went away and thought about it, observed my son etc, but realised there was no basis in what the nursery was saying.

I lost faith in them as they lumped in a potential SN problem with criticisms about his personality and both were clearly motivated my their dislike of a two year old! Makes my blood boil even thinking about it.

Anyway my point is that just because I was upset about the idea of Ds having a SN, doesn't make me prejudiced

I agree that it is a sensitive subject. And that is certainly something the professionals should be aware of when talking to parents. I felt such anger and even hatred towards my DSs key worker - something I'm thoroughly ashamed of now that I've seen how much extra work she's had to put in and the amazing amount of support she's given him. If she hadn't raised her concerns or if I'd ignored them I would have been much happier with my head in the sand. She would have had so much less work. Win win really... except in the middle of that was a little boy who needed/needs some extra support to reach his full potential.

And that's what it's all the about - the children. It shouldn't be a competion as to who's right - the parents or the staff. Both will usually have the child's best interest at heart. Both will see different aspects of the child. Both will have their points of view. But for the child's sake all these points of view need to be considered. Obviously it is the OP's chocie but IMO to just remove the child would not help. She needs to talk to the pre-school, listen to their concerns, see the evidence and find out what help they can give. If after that she's not happy, feels like her point of view hasn't been considered and doesn't feel like it is the best setting for her DS then she and her DH and consider their options.

Asheth I agree, you (OP) for certain need to know more, and also think it pretty odd that they did not approach you for a meeting about these concerns, but they were only raised when you contacted them, so came very unexpectedly. It seems bizarre to be preparing documentation before talking with the parents.

You can't tell at this point what is going on, whether it is just a lively child in the wrong environment or a child who is going to need more support, so given that I would be in there pronto, having meetings with the staff, SALT and SENCO or whoever again, trying to get to the bottom of their concerns.

Then you can make a decision.

Of course, it may be the case that it is not an either/or situation, there may be concerns or potential SN issues and the environment may not be right too, in which case a move might be indicated, but surely you need to get to the bottom of their thinking before making such a decision.

Your son may still need the nurturing support of a family unit rather than teachers. He's so young. Provided he's hitting his milestones, it seems absurd to suggest there are ways in which he's failing to perform in preschool.

Are you aware that while it may suit some kids to start formal learning so early, research has shown that it can actually disadvantage others who are less developed? Especially boys? In light of that, I would have lost confidence in these professionals when they didn't see the gender issue as significant straight away. Professional advice can be invaluable but it can also be mistaken and subjective.

There are no advantages for your child in attempting to keep pace with little girls who are probably more advanced in a number of ways. I also agree that it could be very hard for your son to encounter - probably unnecessarily - a message that he's different, or lacking in some way.

With your son, you are the professional. You're looking at him through a lens of deep understanding and love, as a result of thousands of hours of one-to-one time. The staff have only seen him as a member of a recently formed group, of which he happens not to be a typical member.

Perhaps it would help if you - or a dedicated childminder - were to work on engaging your son's interest at his own level. Without discipline or hectoring, he could naturally grow into longer and longer periods of concentration. I tried this with an autistic child, and it worked. Not a quick fix, though! I would probably feel there was nothing a classroom assistant could do that I wouldn't do better in this situation.

You may have to face these problems again later, or you may not. Either way, your little boy has a right to be happy.

Please don't let this experience make you anxious about your son, or lose confidence about your ability to parent him well. It would be very sad if he picked up on your anxiety and felt deep down that it was his fault. I think you should continue to enjoy him and celebrate who he is and what he does. Let this whole experience go down the river.

I also agree with Asheth :)

Go digging for more info then decide what to do

Everything you said about your DS was said about mine when he was 3yrs old... And when he was 4yrs old and 5 and 6 and 7.... You get the drift

However at 3yrs old - when I rang, like you did, for the same reasons you did I was reassured...

At 4, 5 & 6 the negatives continued and got bigger but no real action as my son is also damn cute & very intelligent.

At nearly 7 he was diagnosed with ASD - he is very high functioning... Great I thought - we would get 'that different path of education'

His school failed him - they were quite open about it.

Now 9 and in a fantastic school but counting the costs of missed opportunities at many points in his education.

Take the extra support - take everything they are offering then ask for it at home so you can support what is done at pre-school.

I am not saying your son has ASD at all - I am just saying that it is rare to find settings that are so proactive... There is no real money or benefit to them in gaining funding as it will probably cost more than they get.

Early intervention in ANY issue will prevent so much heartache and in the vast majority will just get them through a blip...

I wish my son had been given this opportunity at 3... It could have changed his life dramatically. Please don't turn it down.

My 'lens of love' didn't see anything different about DS1. Why would it? He was my first.

An experienced preschool worker raised concerns.

We chose to follow it up. He has Aspergers.

I'm not saying this will be true for the OP. but really, really what harm will that extra support actually do? Nobody has answered that.