To get annoyed when other women say "I'm not a feminist"

[Nickabilla]

As if it's a dirty word and a shameful thing to be? I hear it every now and then and always question it. Someone said it today and I'm annoyed again.

Do some women not realise that women didn't used to be allowed to go to university, get divorced, own property or vote?

Rant over.

I only read the first few pages, sorry

The reason I wouldnt call my self a femenist is becuase I dont identify with ANYTHING written on the femenist board.

We have a traditional marriage, I am very much a "kept woman" "house slave" or whatever people want to call it. I DO run round after my husband making sure his food is ready, and shirts are ironed etc. I also believe he has a right to regular sex which as far as I can tell isnt inline with femenist views.

SF into buildings, carrying injured, using brute strength to reach the people trapped inside demolished buildings

brut strength is being replaced by machines and brains.

(erases brain after reading GoodTouch's post/windup)

It wasnt a wind up. You assuming it must be a joke is why I wouldnt call myself a femenist. I dont belong in that group. There are loads of people like me. I think its a perfectly valid lifestyle choice.

My husband is wonderful by the way. Its not an abusive or controlling relationship... its just seen as outdated by femenists

Re debating - the men got heckled just as much, albeit not about their comely figures. It's a bit like stand up comedy, if the audience senses weakness you are dead. Of course boorish, twattish behaviour should be stamped out. But as a debater, you need to do the stamping yourself.

Some arenas in life are a bit rougher than others. I don't think bringing everything down to same level of saccharine women friendly cath kidstonesque print is necessarily the way to go.

Btw do you think this is the first example since time began of a feminist thread where NO ONE (I think) has got deleted?

I think we all deserve a Pat on the Back for that and Buffy should be proud of her well earned badge.

Skyler - by acknowledging my good fortune in not experiencing sexism, please tell me where I then went on to deny others suffered?

I thought I had gone on at quite tedious length about discrimination and victims thereof.

Women like me exist, there are a lot of us on this thread. And no, we don't identify as the oppressed, the weak, the needing encouragement to put our aprons off. That's why we don't identify as feminists as that is how we see feminism developing today.

No Buffy, be calm I don't think you are advocating that. But as I hope I have gone some way to establishing a lot of feminists aren't very good at getting their point across or fundamentally misunderstand what they should be aiming for. So I think there is a lot of this Women Weak/Men Oppressor dichotomy which is putting a lot of us Amozonian Buffy lovin Bitches right off, I can tell you.

You are right to look at my choice of language. I do see some people as wanting to bring women 'down' to a position of weakness, where they always have to be encouraged and mentored and prodded and hand held.

And it makes me a little bit sad. I want a meritocracy. I don't want my daughter to get this mindset that its all so hard and if she meets a public school prat at a debate, instead of verbally ripping him a new one, she runs off crying to the newspapers.

By all means publicly shame the loathsome turds but only after you have exercised your own agency to shame them.

Well, as an immediate example, your post at 15:12 about the debaters. You seemed to imply that it was simply part of the rough and tumble of debate, that their sensitivity to having their bodies the subject of lewd and abusive comments was 'weakness' and that they should stamp it out themselves.

The women in question were not prepared to accept that treatment, saw it as sexist and misogynist, and walked out.

Your post, to my reading, seemed to reject the validity of their interpretation of their experience.

Something else which occurred to me - I don't know if it was you, Spero who originally brought this up, perhaps not - is the equation of victim with weak/flowers/oppressed etc etc. The strongest person in the world can be a victim. Anyone can be a victim. It doesn't reflect badly on your value, strength, or resilience; indeed, it's arguable that victims are among the most resilient in society. So I don't really understand how pointing out that women have historically (and in the present day) been the victims of active discrimination and structural disadvantage somehow turns them into weak lily-livered precious flowers.

Buffy - I do realise its not everyones choice of course..but it is a choice. I shouldve said what he does for me, which is everything else. So what I do some traditional wifey things and appreciate how hard he works. We are still equals

Was going to leave, had left, and my computer is being slow this afternoon.

But cant let skylers post go unanswered.

re the students at the debate.
Why on earth didnt they debate with the hecklers.
They are, after all, supposed to be ace at debating.

Debating doesnt just include, soft subjects in soft rooms.

Take on the hecklers and win!
Stay there all night if necessary.

Then go to the media if you want to
And tell your story

arrgghhh

Dont be a victim.
I hate this victim stuff.

I like to think of it in terms of numbers (definitely a scientist!). If there are 10 ambitious men, then maybe 7 of them will succeed. From 10 ambitious women, maybe 3 of them will succeed. Sometimes it's no good to hear from those 3 women about how they did x, y and z, so therefore women should just get on with it and stop moaning because they're obviously not ambitious or tenacious enough if they can't succeed. Because those other 7 women might equally well have tried x, y and z, but found other barriers in their way. Those 7 women aren't 'weak flowers' who need all the help they can get, but strong women who are not playing on a level field.

'brut strength is being replaced by machines and brains.'

If you have the stomach for it, google images of the Boston bombings, probably better to google images from an online paper. How many women do you see in high viz jackets or in police uniform etc, helping or carrying the injured? A handful at most, all the rest are men, hundreds of them.

Brains would not have helped anybody in Boston, and I didn't spot any machines.

'unfair'

It's that word again.

'I think we all deserve a Pat on the Back for that and Buffy should be proud of her well earned badge.'