To get annoyed when other women say "I'm not a feminist"

[Nickabilla]

As if it's a dirty word and a shameful thing to be? I hear it every now and then and always question it. Someone said it today and I'm annoyed again.

Do some women not realise that women didn't used to be allowed to go to university, get divorced, own property or vote?

Rant over.

[Spero]

Buffy, I honestly don't think my beef with feminism is because it detracts from my achievements. It honestly never occurred to me that being a woman was a problem - probably because during teens and twenties I was much more focused on my disability, given that so many people made it clear they thought this was so horrible and worthy of comment and abuse.

I will fully admit to now finding this Woman as Delicate Flower trope very irritating as I don't want my daughter buying into it in ANY way.

[Spero]

Not from YOUR feminism Buffy, I will concede.

But when I have tried to engage and learn on other feminist threads I have very quickly been accused of such awful things I have backed away and thus my possible misconceptions remain unchallenged - in fact they have been mostly cemented.

[Spero]

Buffy, sorry wasn't avoiding your question re class/education.

No, you can't tell someone disadvantaged by class/education just to suck it up and own their shit because this disadvantage starts before birth and it is very difficult to make up the ground later on, no matter how ballsy or smart you are.

One small but chilling example from my personal sphere - did interviews for work last week. I interviewed 12 people. Only ONE came from a state school.

[SigmundFraude]

That's truly depressing Spero.

[FasterStronger]

the worst sexual discrimination I have experienced was in my first job where my boss thought it was funny to touch me up and go though my gym bag and handle/discuss my bra and pants with my male co workers.

when I complained, on one spoke to me for the 3 months (well about 2-3 conversations in total in 3 months, yes so 1 per month). then I left, taking them to court.

lots of women have told me of their experiences which amounted to sexual assault at work e.g. boss pulling someones top down to see their boobs.

if you have not experienced this, good for you.

but please stop making out like everything is 100% fine for middle class women.

IT IS NOT. you are confusing your experience with all the other women's different experiences.

[rubyanddiamond]

I think there's a fine line between pointing out the disadvantages that someone faces so that they can be better placed to overcome them, and pointing them out in such a way that it'll put them off even trying. And that line varies from person to person - what one person sees as a challenge will scare another away.

[Spero]

My point is that the barriers for the white middle class woman have gone. Half the interviewees were women. Again, only ONE (female) was to white.

I raised this with interview panel, they agreed it was concerning but this was what had come through the first sifting process. Which I think is done without knowing persons gender or race BUT of course you see their educational establishments and count their A starred GCSEs.

My daughter is bright. But if she had stayed at her Brixton state school I doubt she would have left with the grades or the accent to apply for some jobs.

[SigmundFraude]

Are all women disadvantaged? I think class disadvantage is a much bigger deal.

[Spero]

I can only speak for the law, so sorry if I overstep. But in 10 years I have seen no barriers to women in law, other than problems in taking time off to have children.

[FasterStronger]

I think lots of MC women don't talk about their experiences. its not what you do to get on.

so if its not you, you probably don't know about it.

[skylerwhite]

That was my point earlier, Buffy on whataboutery. But you expressed it rather more eloquently than my one-handed typing in an airport

[SigmundFraude]

Be interesting to have a discussion with you another time Buffy.

[SigmundFraude]