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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to find it really irritating when people who earn a lot say...

347 replies

Doodledumdums · 29/06/2013 22:02

...But I work really hard for the money I get.

Sorry, totally unimportant, but it really irritates me!

I have a few friends who earn quite a lot of money, and I don't begrudge them this at all, but I just find it really insulting when they say 'But I do work really hard for it.' I also work hard! I feel like it implies that I don't! Okay, I am on maternity leave at the moment, so am not actually at work, (although i'd say that to some extent, looking after a baby is harder than my actual job anyway!) but when I am working, I am usually in the office by 8am, and often don't leave until 7pm, and I earn literally a fraction of what some of my friends earn. That is fine, I knew that when I got in to my chosen industry, but it doesn't mean that I don't work as hard as they do or deserve more!

They don't need to be defensive about it at all! It is totally fine that they earn what they do, I just don't understand why they can't be a bit more gracious about it and say something like 'Yes, I am lucky that I have a job I love which pays well.'

Oh I don't know, maybe I am being unreasonable and ultra-sensitive. I am sure they don't mean to imply that I don't work hard, but it just feels like that sometimes. Totally a first world issue!

P.S- I have self esteem and anxiety issues...which is possibly why I find this upsetting!

OP posts:
FasterStronger · 01/07/2013 11:54

else you will always strive for an unachievable goal.

I always strive for an unachievable goal. whatever I do is never enough. next time I will always try to do better than last time. I don't want to be satisfied. I want to be hungry.

Original poster
Doodledumdums · 01/07/2013 12:01

Well great if that works for you, but personally I feel that it is very mentally and emotionally damaging to constantly strive for something that you can't reach. Sure, strive for something higher which is within your reach, but unachievable? Surely that isn't healthy.

My dream of being a vet is unachievable, but had I decided to go for it, i'd be shouldering misery, many failed and repeated years attempting to get into veterinary school, a lot of heartache and no success. Instead I changed my goalposts and am now happy and working my way up in a different career. I still have ambitions, but they are ambitions which I would hope are remotely achievable with the hard work and dedication that I am capable of.

OP posts:
FasterStronger · 01/07/2013 12:03

doodle - I think everyone needs to step outside their comfort zone in order to see what they can do. so I really don't like the idea of 'knowing your limits' as a general rule.

FasterStronger · 01/07/2013 12:06

doodle - this is the difference in how you & I see things:

michaelgr.com/2007/04/15/fixed-mindset-vs-growth-mindset-which-one-are-you/

amazingmumof6 · 01/07/2013 12:15

but then faster it is your desire that pushes your forward.
you want to do the next thing, the next challenge. I'm like that too.
no one asks me to do things, I want to do them. I get really frustrated when I can't (lack of time etc)

but not every one is like that and it is not their fault.
their achievement will be limited to the level of their interest/drive/desire/motivation whatever I call it.

we are all born with different talents, so for some it is the lack of talent that puts a stop to achieving their goals.

or being less intelligent or interested or whatever.

I think it is lucky for you to have had a talent for something that you could turn into a high paying job with lots of hard work and determination.
And good on you!

"success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - and precisely because of that I agree with doodles that without talent/inborn ability/affinity the highest level of success is unachievable.

FasterStronger · 01/07/2013 12:27

if that's true, then everyone on the relationships board with abusive partners, should not strive for something better, because that just their limits.

why on MN do we say women deserve better in relationships but not in everything in life? if someone thinks a characteristic about themselves is holding them back, I don't think they need to accept it. I don't think they should accept it.

and if they do they need to recognise their choice to accept it.

Original poster
Doodledumdums · 01/07/2013 12:38

That is a very odd analogy! How can you compare career success with being in an abusive relationship?! That doesn't make sense! People aren't limited to being in abusive relationships because they can't achieve anything else, of course not!! That is vastly different to having career limitations! You don't achieve relationships, they aren't goals!

Clearly we have very different views on this, and you aren't going to change your views because of what I say, but I won't change mine either. It wasn't my choice to accept my limitations didn't extend to me being a vet, it was a fact that they didn't stretch that far.

OP posts:
Crowler · 01/07/2013 12:44

amazingmum, you've lost me there.

Drive is not a genetic trait. The absence of drive is essentially laziness. There's nothing wrong with being lazy (provided you are willing to accept the consequences - many aren't) - but surely you're not saying it's a genetic trait?

My view on luck is more like as I've described above - graduating from business school during a booming economy. Not motivation.

Thurlow · 01/07/2013 12:44

That's not a decent analogy Hmm

Some people are shite at science and maths. I was. A lot of the traditional higher paying careers involve at the very least decent science or maths A-levels, if not an out-and-out aptitude for those subjects. (which is possibly the reason why they pay more anyway, as there is a premium for people with those skills) So someone might have desperately wanted to be a doctor, but just lacked the skills in chemistry to get them into a medical degree.

FasterStronger · 01/07/2013 12:45

How can you compare career success with being in an abusive relationship?!

I am comparing someone limiting their abilities with someone placing limits on their self worth.

both are subjective. and many people (esp. women) underestimate what they are capable of/deserve.

I could not cope without him/I don't think I could succeed at...

cory · 01/07/2013 12:47

There is a difference between striving for a goal that might be obtainable (leaving your abusive partner) or that might at least lead to a slightly lower but still acceptable goal (trying to write a better article than your last one) and a situation where people are wrecking their health because they have set their sights on one unfixable goal and will not give up until they reached it.

Think of youngsters wrecking their joints and starving themselves to become ballet dancers when they don't really have the physique, or students committing suicide when they realise they are not going to get a First despite working harder than anybody else in their year.

Yes, the brain is plastic: that's why the student may be getting a 2:2 or even a 2:1 instead of a fail. But it still doesn't mean they are going to get the same grades, or the same job opportunities, as the naturally gifted student who can take an essay question and develop it in a way that opens up new windows to the professor who is a specialist in the subject.

FasterStronger · 01/07/2013 12:50

Think of youngsters wrecking their joints and starving themselves to become ballet dancers when they don't really have the physique, or students committing suicide when they realise they are not going to get a First despite working harder than anybody else in their year.

realism and resilience play a role so clearly if people don't have them its not going to work.

samandi · 01/07/2013 12:51

Yes, I did mean natural talent or ability. And skills you can develop to a certain extent, but certain people will always be able to pick them up more easily.

chocolatecrispies · 01/07/2013 12:52

Yanbu. I work in the public sector. I have three degrees and several years of experience. My work is extremely stressful and demanding and sometimes life or death. We are all burning out due to the high level of responsibility and pressure. My salary has been frozen for 3 years. There are no promotion prospects at all as all the senior jobs have been cut. I didn't choose this - 10 years ago the climate was completely different. The implication of 'I work hard for it' is 'harder than you and others who earn less'. It's a lie people tell themselves and others to justify social inequality and why looking after money is valued so much more highly than looking after people.

FasterStronger · 01/07/2013 12:59

And skills you can develop to a certain extent, but certain people will always be able to pick them up more easily.

there can be advantages to initially finding something harder. e.g.

person A: succeeds easily.
person B: fails, regroups, thinks, plans, tries again, succeeds.

person B has gained more from the experience.

cory · 01/07/2013 12:59

FasterStronger Mon 01-Jul-13 12:50:59
"Think of youngsters wrecking their joints and starving themselves to become ballet dancers when they don't really have the physique, or students committing suicide when they realise they are not going to get a First despite working harder than anybody else in their year.

realism and resilience play a role so clearly if people don't have them its not going to work."

Yes, but isn't realism the same as recognising your limitations? Confused

If your feet are the wrong shape for professional ballet, then they are the wrong shape for professional ballet. If you have gone through a whole degree course and never yet come up with an idea that any tutor has praised for originality or creativity, might it not be time to recognise that maybe an academic career is not for you?

You can still aim at getting better at something else or using the skills you have acquired for pushing yourself in some other area. But I think you get to a point where it makes sense to listen to what other people are telling you and look at how you compare to other people around you.

samandi · 01/07/2013 12:59

Also, it is quite possible to be offended by high-earners who say "I work hard[er than other people]" without wanting to be them. Many people are fairly happy in their lower-paid jobs and have chosen to go into those fields knowing the pay is less than for other jobs - it doesn't mean that they don't work hard though.

amazingmumof6 · 01/07/2013 13:00

crowler
my DS3 is very conscientious. he wants to do his homework.
he's only 8 but has been always like this since starting school. he wants to be the best.

DS2 is lazy as pigshit.
I have to nag him to do anything (apart from playing foitball)
he's been like that. I hope with time he'll change his attitude, he'll learn why he has to work hard.

but DS3 is already there. he was born that way. lucky for him

cory · 01/07/2013 13:03

erStronger Mon 01-Jul-13 12:59:05
"And skills you can develop to a certain extent, but certain people will always be able to pick them up more easily.

there can be advantages to initially finding something harder. e.g.

person A: succeeds easily.
person B: fails, regroups, thinks, plans, tries again, succeeds.

person B has gained more from the experience."

This is very true. But does not allow for:

person C: fails, regroups, plans and tries again but still doesn't do well
because complete lack of innate ability to understand how things work in this particular area

samandi · 01/07/2013 13:03

*And skills you can develop to a certain extent, but certain people will always be able to pick them up more easily.

there can be advantages to initially finding something harder. e.g.

person A: succeeds easily.
person B: fails, regroups, thinks, plans, tries again, succeeds.

person B has gained more from the experience.*

In the meantime person B might have sacrificed several years of his/her life and spent thousands of pounds on tuition fees/more training/etc. I wouldn't say that was necessarily a good thing. Perhaps they would have been better off following a different path.

I'm unconvinced that person B has necessarily gained more from the experience (presumably you mean stuff like character development etc.)anyway.

amazingmumof6 · 01/07/2013 13:05

I can't remember where I heard this :
there are to types of people regarding motivation
1-the ones who do things to get a reward
2-the ones who do things to avoid a punishment.

you are born one way or the other. the first type will always do better.
I'm not saying you can't change your attitude.
but you can't choose what you are born with

WetGrass · 01/07/2013 13:07

I find the philosophy of 'some of us are born to be mediocre' a bit Confused - particularly as some kind of life lesson for DC.

Striving for excellence should be universal - as should the acceptance of the fact that everyone has limitations and frustrations - and will ultimately reach their own peak.

amazingmumof6 · 01/07/2013 13:08

and btw everyone is a doer in some things and an avoider in other things.

I'm a doer when it comes to making things.
I'm an avoider f it comes to getting up early
and so on

Crowler · 01/07/2013 13:11

amazingmum, I don't think that means he's doomed to laziness. What is he, 10? He is very likely to turn it around as he develops a sense of competition, or an understanding of how grades will affect path.

I also have a really lazy 10 year old.

FasterStronger · 01/07/2013 13:11

cory person C: fails, regroups, plans and tries again but still doesn't do well because complete lack of innate ability to understand how things work in this particular area

who says they have a complete lack of innate ability? and that's subjective - you are not talking about a definitive measure.

and C can still learnt from the experience.

what wetgrass says. Striving for excellence should be universal.