to find it really irritating when people who earn a lot say...

[Doodledumdums]

...But I work really hard for the money I get.

Sorry, totally unimportant, but it really irritates me!

I have a few friends who earn quite a lot of money, and I don't begrudge them this at all, but I just find it really insulting when they say 'But I do work really hard for it.' I also work hard! I feel like it implies that I don't! Okay, I am on maternity leave at the moment, so am not actually at work, (although i'd say that to some extent, looking after a baby is harder than my actual job anyway!) but when I am working, I am usually in the office by 8am, and often don't leave until 7pm, and I earn literally a fraction of what some of my friends earn. That is fine, I knew that when I got in to my chosen industry, but it doesn't mean that I don't work as hard as they do or deserve more!

They don't need to be defensive about it at all! It is totally fine that they earn what they do, I just don't understand why they can't be a bit more gracious about it and say something like 'Yes, I am lucky that I have a job I love which pays well.'

Oh I don't know, maybe I am being unreasonable and ultra-sensitive. I am sure they don't mean to imply that I don't work hard, but it just feels like that sometimes. Totally a first world issue!

P.S- I have self esteem and anxiety issues...which is possibly why I find this upsetting!

[FasterStronger]

C hasn't failed because they have shown themselves they have balls. now they need to apply those balls in a better way than the previous time.

[Crowler]

I remain steadfast in my belief that luck plays a role in success, but I am surprised that people are so convinced that one is born with a certain set of fixed characteristics!

[amazingmumof6]

x-post? I didn't say he was doomed to laziness! like I'd allow him that luxury to be lazy!

only that he is motivated differently. since birth.

[Crowler]

^^Didn't mean to suggest you felt he was.

[amazingmumof6]

crowler

in my earlier post I said both nature and nurture play massive roles!

and I agree about luck playing a role - also said it before that what characteristics or genetics you arw born with are not a person choice, nor are where you are born etc.

I think we actually agree on a lot of things. slightly different angles

[FasterStronger]

crowler - i am surprised too. but it is widespread and it is called 'fixed mindset' thinking.

[amazingmumof6]

doodles

FWIW I admire your strength for being able turn your back on something you realized weren't for you after all.
that is very hard to do.

not every one is supposed to be a vet or a teacher or a mechanic or a lawyer.
IMO it is far better to accept reality and be happy, than forever chasing an unrealistic dream and be unhappy.
well done

[FasterStronger]

I dont think there is anything wrong with changing your mind about what you want to do but you cannot then criticize someone else who has pursued their aims further than you.

and I don't think accepting = happiness. I see lots of people go for the easy route and just 'kick the can down the road'.

[amazingmumof6]

FS accepting things/situations you can not change requires a lot of strength and positive attitude and the reward is peace of mind.
not an important thing for you I'm guessing.

but it is a great thing to achieve too.

[FasterStronger]

amazing - I don't disagree with you at all in general terms. it just where you draw the line between the things you can and cannot change is where it gets complex.

[cory]

FasterStronger Mon 01-Jul-13 13:15:25
"C hasn't failed because they have shown themselves they have balls. now they need to apply those balls in a better way than the previous time."

Very much agree with this. But sometimes that better way needs to be in a different area.

A student who after years of coaching and diligent practising is still singing out of tune probably needs to accept that all this energy is not going to help them to a career as an opera singer. They need to use that energy and that love of music in a different way.

A university student of history or English literature who writes weak essays without much original thought or logical coherence, tries again and again to improve and after 3 years of tutorial feedback and much effort on their own part is still writing weak essays without much original thought or logical coherence probably needs to accept that a PhD is not the way for them. They need to see where their real strengths lie.

Of course we don't have to call it failure: we can give full credit for the effort put it and the lessons learnt. But that is not the same as promising the hoped-for outcome if you only regroup and try again.

[amazingmumof6]

FS thanks.
and that is the cruix of the matter.
when and why we choose to carry on or to give up.
some of it is inbuilt, some of it is learnt. it also depends on a variety of circumstances.

impossible to tell what I would have done in dooodles shoes, so I choose to take her word for it when she says she chose the altogether better option for herself.
not that she needs to prove anything or justify herself to me or anyone else!

she may have regrets, but she seems to be content with her decision. good for her!

you will keep going and strive for new challenges. good for you!

maybe one day you can accept that giving something up is not always a sign of weakness - which is what I suppose you think now.
(do correct me if I'm guessing wrong)

[garlicnutty]

FS, you attributed your mathematical brilliance to intensive study as a child - that is, you claim the credit for having a "good maths brain" because you claim you deliberately expanded that part of your brain.

I studied very hard at maths, too. I had number tables on my bedroom walls from pre-school, always representing the next stage of achievement in my maths education. I sat up to the small hours with my geometry homework, night after night. In my teens, I persuaded a maths tutor to give me free weekend lessons - I did these for two years.

I am more numerate than average, in consequence. But I scraped my maths O-level with the lowest pass grade. I still struggle with geometry.

I never worried about English, French or German. I used to dash my homework off in the bus to school, didn't bother reading all the set texts, skived at least half the lessons and did no revision at all for French and English (I crammed German verb tables the night before.) I left two of the exams early, seeing no more to do. I sailed through all three with high grades and a distinction.

In summary, then, I sneer at your "brain development". You have a talent for maths; I have one for language. Your talent happens to yield higher rewards in our society. There's no shame in thanking your genes for a natural talent. I'm inclined to feel you should be more ashamed of insisting anyone could do it, for in doing so you belittle others' talents along with your own.

[garlicnutty]

We have gone off topic a bit, I suppose. Doodle's original complaint, "But I work hard for it!" is as meaningless as "But I go in every day!"

You won't find many workers who say "I doss around most days!" (I was one, as it goes; I landed well on my feet with that career.) Saying you work hard means nothing, unless you really mean to imply your listeners don't.

[amazingmumof6]

I like being off topic. I tend to learn more [rebel]

[garlicnutty]

Me, too

[cory]

I suspect that most people who claim they would never give up on anything have already done a lot of subconscious de-selecting of possible career paths that they would not have been very good at.

I have never consciously considered becoming a mathematician, an economist, a gymnast or a a dentist. I tell myself that any of those jobs would have seemed really boring. But it may well be that I feel that way about them because I suspect I wouldn't be any good at them. The field where I have pushed myself, and climbed back after failure, and tried again and again is one where I do have some reasonable hope of eventual success.

The tragic thing, it seems to me, is when somebody's dream does not coincide with their abilities. And it does happen.

[garlicnutty]

It happens an awful lot, doesn't it, cory, especially now we Brits have adopted dishonest "You can do/be anything!" styles of motivation. We laugh at the pre-selection auditions for shows like the X-Factor, but those are real human dreams being shattered. I think it causes huge amounts of resentment, too: if we believe the lie that reward reflects effort, then we label ourselves and others 'failures', but see the talented as cheats.

[FasterStronger]

garlic I sneer at your "brain development

you are welcome to sneer but I prefer to Learn What Science Says en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroplasticity

cory we need to widen the definition of success.

[melika]

As DH often quotes:-

There are three types of people in this world:
those who make things happen,
those who watch things happen
and those who wonder what happened.

[FasterStronger]

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b017cfkq this program is v good about brain plasticity

[cory]

Faster and stronger Mon 01-Jul-13 15:10:10

"cory we need to widen the definition of success."

But how far do we need to widen it?

To singing badly on X-Factor because you can't accept that even if you spend every spare moment rehearsing that won't necessarily mean you are going to be able to produce something that other people can listen to without shuddering?

(fwiw not everybody who auditions for X-factor is hoping for effortless success: some have been working on their act for years, doesn't necessarily make them any better)

To failing every exam + resits and keep spending more money on fees, because you won't listen to the tutors gently suggesting that perhaps some other path would be better for you?

To persisting as a dentist though the patients complain of your clumsiness, until you are kicked out by the Dentist's Board?

To trying again and again as a surgeon, though your death rates are three times as high as your colleagues?

[garlicnutty]

Well illustrated, imo, cory.

FS, your adherence to brain plasticity as the answer to every perspective presented here is remarkable. It almost suggests a very non-plastic quality to your thinking.

[FasterStronger]

gnutty I'm inclined to feel you should be more ashamed of insisting anyone could do it, for in doing so you belittle others' talents along with your own.

you don't have the most positive approach! I think many people can do more than they think they can. I think many people (esp women) underestimate themselves. of course most people could not be Usain Bolt however hard they tried. but most people don't want to be Mr Bolt.

[FasterStronger]

cory To failing every exam + resits and keep spending more money on fees, because you won't listen to the tutors gently suggesting that perhaps some other path would be better for you?

I am not advocating ignoring experts.