Is it right to make a woman feel unclean?

[camel1]

I was saying 'thank you' to a male colleague and touched his upper arm as a reinforcement of that thanks. He recoiled in disgust, his body language, his facial expression and his yelp surprised me so much that I apologised profusely. The incident happened in front of many children, as I am a teacher at a school. And within a minute he had shook hands with a male colleague. Whether it was his intention or not, I felt that he felt I was unclean. I was/am greatly upset by this. I understand that his cultural or religious beliefs does not permit him to touch women, or vice versa. However, I have lived in many different countries and cultures, and I adhered to their cultural rules and would never have reacted in such an offensive way. What do you think?

Sorry yammy I don't know what you're talking about now, 1000 years and mams and stuff.

Do you respect a religion that treats women as inferior to men?

Crumbled. I meant do you think you are going to change, actually, any religion? Even if you had 1000 years to do it in?

What are you talking about?

I am a Christian Crumbled.
I believe in the bible
When in heaven, it seems that women and men are equal.
While on earth, I think the bible says that women are the weaker sex.
I try and do what the bible says.
I post sometimes on the philosphy board if you want to look at some of the things I say.

thebody, I'm perfectly happy to be touched when it is necessary. I'm even happy to be massaged by a beauty therapist.

I just don't like being hugged, patted on the arm or people massaging me because I "look stressed". It is unwelcome contact, I try not to show that I find it distasteful I just can't help how I feel.

I don't need to get a grip because I try to keep my feelings on the issue to myself.

The bible also says gay men should be put to death.

Not in the New Testament pompeii.

Yams, as a Christian, you will know that Jesus is the ultimate Revelation. No one who comes after Him, including misogynists such as Mohammed and St Paul, can hold a candle to Him. NOWHERE did Jesus say, or even imply, that women are inferior to men. In fact, He chose women to be with Him as He died on the cross, and to witness His resurrection. Jesus was a rebel, and a crusader for women's rights (remember how He saved the life of the adulteress??)

I WISH people would follow the remarkable example of Jesus, instead of stupid religion.

How absolutely bizarre. I've never heard of the cultural/religious practice of recoiling in disgust at human touch nor the belief that women are 'unclean' but whatever that is, I pity the fact that people live in such a way. What about spontaneous gestures of affection, concern and care that occur in civilized human society every day? The touch of a friendly hand on yours to show support, the unexpected hug from an acquaintance, the gentle touch on the arm to say Thanks, the teacher who hugs a distraught child...

I don't think you're unreasonable. This is the UK, where thank god it's perfectly normal to touch someone on the arm briefly when speaking to them. If he's so 'touchy' about it then he should keep an arms length away from women at all times. It's not your job to try to anticipate and police his religious feelings, it's his issue. I think his deliberate reaction was much more offensive than your accidental faux pas and I think he should have apologised to you rather than the other way around, particularly as he made you feel uncomfortable in front of others.

That said ,can't do anything about it now so I'd try to forget about it. Hopefully he is still frantically scrubbing himself somewhere...

It tickles me greatly that thesethreads always are full of posts railing against misogyny and the poor women oppressed by their religion, yet any Muslim women who do speak on here are ignored or accused or being brainwashed.

How can you claim to want to "help" people when you don't even respect them enough to listen to them?

This may be a shock to some here, there has been a lot written by Muslim woman on the pitfalls of colonial feminism and "white people oppressing brown men to "save" brown women"

There is a lot of frustration with groups of well intentioned (I'm being kind) non-Muslim women who want to "save" Muslim women without ever bothering to listen to them.

How is someone claiming, as they did on the linked thread, that Muslim women have "Stockholm Syndrome" helpful? Even worse on another thread was someone claiming that Muslim women shouldn't be allowed on threads about Muslim issues on Mumsnet as we were all brainwashed, so our contributions were pointless.

I don't believe any of you crowing about misogyny actually care about Muslim or Jewish women, this is all just about your own sense of superiority and sticking the boot into a soft target as any religious man (especially one a bit "foreign") is obviously dodgy.

There are verses in Timothy and Corinthians on this matter, Split.
I can pm you them if you want me to.

Very good post Gosh.

Tung, then your reaction isn't the same as the ops bloke was iso not really not relevant.

As for those ops who can't be touched??? Sad sad sad.

The op said the bloke in question Is a teacher? He needs to be sacked ASAP. My dd and her friends were badly injured on a school trip,male teachers saved their lives.

Our dds are unclean??? Are they?? Would this teacher have held back? TWAT/ bastard.

Oh and argue as an adult if you like, please don't quote crap on her, ie The Bibke , Koran Torah etc. it's a lazy reply

Grow up.

Gosh - some women collude with FGM. Should we listen to them too and respect their beliefs? Does it tickle you to know that I don't?

By the way Gosh it may also tickle you to know that I do think myself better than anyone who believes that women are lesser because they are women. I don't want my daughters to live in a country where I need to respect a view that they aren't.

Did you know there are many woman working in communities afflicted by FGM that are working to stop it?

Throwing FGM out as a "gotcha" to shut me up proves my point exactly. You don't want to listen to Muslim women.

The cat - it's not that the husband of the Orthodox Jewish family you cleaned for thought you were unclean. It's that in this community, interaction between the sexes is strictly regulated and he will only have physical contact with his wife or immediate female relatives (mother, daughters). (Haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if this point has already been made.)

Yams, that is STILL from Paul, a known misogynist!! And as Jesus was and IS the ultimate Revelation, you should maybe think more about HIS message (seeing as you are a CHRISTian and all)!!

Don't worry about pm-ing me...I grew up within the most Catholic household you can imagine...I know more about religion and Jesus than most people put together. Plus I am a qualified RE teacher. So I think I know my theology, thanks all the same.

GOTH,

So would a male Muslim teacher have saved my dds life then?

He would have had to hold her as her bone was stuck through her thigh, reassure her with a massive head injury and hold her head as she was unconscious to ensure she could breathe!

You see you are 'tickled' great good for you. Take a reality check and answer my question.

Good on them. So which Muslim women should we listen to? The ones defending discriminatory practices or the ones colluding with them? We have to ignore one group. Which group shall we decide to ignore? Shall we use our own judgement on what is right, in making that decision?

I'm afraid I wouldn't use a serious issue like FGM as a "gotcha" moment. I'm surprised you do.

If my third sentence is confusing - try this - The one's fighting discriminatory practices or the ones colluding with them?