AIBU to give DP proposal ultimatum?

[justhayley]

Horrible title but.... iv been with DP for 8 1/2 years I'm almost 30 and we have a 15 month old DS. DS wasn't planned (but very much wanted & loved) however ideally I didn't want children until I was married.
I really think DP should be proposing. We've spoken about marriage but when it comes to this subject we both seem pretty crap at communicating.
DP has never said he doesn't want to marry me but after this long and a baby I'm starting to wonder what the hell he's waiting for.
He's in he military and 2 years ago said once he finishes his training we would get engaged. His training finished a year ago and still I don't feel like he's even planning to ask me. In a way I feel like he lead me on a bit.

I don't want him to feel pressured to propose - I want him to do it because he wants to. Evertyime i decide to talk to him about ut i feel like im pressuring him and it makes me feel crap.
However In a way I feel like I also don't want to waste anymore time with someone who just may never ask.
Marriage is important to me, I'm the only person out of all my friends thy isn't marries or engaged and iv been with DP the longest.
His most recent excuse is Money. I'm not buying it. Yes we are not rolling in it and do not have enough cash for a big dream wedding and a
tiffany engagement ring, but we are not so hard up we couldn't pull something lovely
together without going into masses of debt or breaking the bank. I want a marriage not a wedding.

I'm feeling a bit torn should I consider leaving DP and eventually finding someone to be with that wants marriage, start putting some pressure and ultimatums on him, or just stay in what is actually a happy relationship, but risk never getting married & ending up resenting him for it.
What do you think?
Opinions please x

if he's good dad,good partner I see no reason for ultimatium,it has huge ramifications
if you issue a marry me or else and he stalls,will you split up?deprive child of dad
if he feel compelled to agree you'll always wonder was he forced?and was it worth it

I think that longer term, women are going to find it more difficult to get their DPs to marry them as there appears to be nothing in it for men to get married unless they are religiously inclined.
This is because:

1. It is not necessary for a man to get married for a man to live with someone, have a family and live as if they were married. Why buy the cow, when you can get the milk for free? and
2. The existence of the no-fault divorce means that a main bread-winning husband can find himself unilaterally stripped of his family, children, house, part of his income and perhaps part of his pension - even he did everything right. With over 40% of marriages ending in divorce, 70% of which are initiated by women, the institution is fraught with risk.

We can't go back to the 1950s but something does seem to have gone awry.

your agricultural metaphor bit off a woman isn't cow giving away milk
I think if marriage really significant,have the big talk early on.be clear if both agree
and if marriage a deal breaker don't cohabit.marry someone who wants to be married

Er..who is supposed to be the cow in this scenario??

Ask him. Take him out and propose. If he declines ask him to move out.

The cow metaphor isn't mine:
www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/why+buy+the+cow+when+you+can+get+the+milk+for+free.html

Perhaps I should have put it in quotes.

That aside, are my points valid?

Phineyj, I think there is something quite misleading about the statistics you quote (Unfortunately, however, if you're not married the chances are you'll break up before your child is grown up... But only four of the 100 teenagers would have unmarried parents who are still together by the time they are 16) because it is almost impossible to break down the reasons why the parents weren't married when their children were born, and I think is hugely important.

It's important because marriage still is the societal norm, ergo the vast majority of couples who decide that they are with the person they want to spend the rest of their life with will get married. It's a very small minority of couples who decide not to get married. This is unscientific, I know, but looking at all my friends (all roughly early 30s, many having children) DP and I are the only couple who aren't married. And I think all of them were married before having children.

So of the couples who were unmarried when their children were born, I would guess only a very small minority are couples like DP and I who were 10 years in, own a house together, who would have been married years before if marriage had been on the cards for us. The majority if couples who are unmarried when their children are born are then possibly either in quite new relationships - or who then go on to get married a few years later, which skews the statistics.

That's a bit waffly, I know, but what I'm trying to say is that it really isn't as simple (or even very nice) to say that you have kids, you're not married, you're far more likely to split up than married couples. Especially when nowadays it is almost as tricky to extricate yourself from a joint mortgage and joint finances as it is a marriage.

Yes, mibracat. Interesting post.

Why didn't you get married when you were pregnant, OP? That seems the logical time.

1) It is not necessary for a man to get married for a man to live with someone, have a family and live as if they were married. Why buy the cow, when you can get the milk for free?and

milbracat

no one thinks you invented it we all just assumed since around 1950 that saying had gone out of fashion. Being totally disgusting and all.

No-one's denying you don't have to be married to be committed, there are plenty of people in committed relationships that never intend on entering that state. They tend to have the same view on the whole institution, everyone's happy. But OP has made it clear to her DP that her mind, at least, marriage is the ultimate commitment. And instead of saying, "actually, love, I don't fancy it", he just keeps putting it on the long finger.

Instead of being honest with her, he's watching her put her life on hold and make sacrifices about where she lives, her career, and financial security while he refuses to address an issue which she clearly feels strongly about. Not cool.

OP, maybe don't worry about an ultimatum, maybe just drop him. If he isn't sure by 8 years I'd say he's never going to be sure.

lets be clear I didn't think cow metaphor originate from you milbracat
its just risible,and a bit moral cautionary dont give favours away or he'll no marry you
I think societal expectation marriage have changed for both sexes.women no longer need man to provide.men no longer need marry to have family

Its not just you who is affected by your ultimatum, but your son. You are effectively deciding that marriage is more important than him having his dad around.

This is something that you should have done before having a child if it meant so much to you.

Actually OP as a feminist I would say that your scenario is a perfect demonstration of why marriage is a good thing for women and why you are totally entitled to feel so strongly about it.

You've made a huge personal commitment to your joint family in the form of having his and your child - you've given over your body for 9 months to nurture the child along with all the attendant health risks and discomfort. That's a pretty massive and generous thing for anybody to do - obviously almost all women do this freely, out of love and their own desire to have a child, but let's not forget that it's still a pretty huge thing. You might have more children. On top of that, you've become primary carer, so you've probably taken a massive economic hit for the sake of your family unit, and you're preparing to follow his career around the world if necessary, so you'll never really be able to build up the earning power you could if you were on your own. You're prepared to care for him if he gets seriously wounded.

Those are all very good reasons that he should be grateful to you and want to reciprocate by providing you with protection so that the sacrifices you've made for your family unit don't end up hurting you long term if you split up or he dies. That doesn't mean that marriage is a tit-for-tat cold financial arrangement. It should be something he naturally wants to do to see that you are OK in any eventuality, because he loves you.

On top of that there are some very specific benefits to being married to someone in the Forces which you cannot get any other way - being NOK, War Widows pension and having access to some military support resources like housing etc (you don't want married housing now - but what if that changes? or if there is a shortage and unmarried couples aren't eligible anymore?). And if he was posted to Cyprus presumably you couldn't go with him unless you were married.

If he was killed would you struggle financially?

Its not just you who is affected by your ultimatum, but your son. You are effectively deciding that marriage is more important than him having his dad around.This is something that you should have done before having a child if it meant so much to you.

Certainly that would mean her husband had decided that? he has already said they would be getting married at some point in the future. I suppose the OP was foolish to believe the man she loved and had been with for 7 years and then I suppose she should have aborted the baby when she got pregnant accidentally.

Possibly we could put the blame for this bad situation where it belongs on her dp's shoulders? For stringing her along? Why should everything be on his terms?

It's big deal to split up,otherwise happy relationship over marriage
Big for the child,big for you two.is it simply idea of marriage you crave
sO say you left dp,would you marry 1st half decent man who asks?create a dad and step dad scenario

Chiming in on the 'ask him' bench.

I told my husband we were getting married :) We had talked about it before so when I wanted to do it I told him that we were going to go book the date.

He could have turned around and said no but we had talked about it before so knew he wasn't against marriage or anything.

Not very romantic I know

It's big deal to split up,otherwise happy relationship over marriage

..but isn't there a make or break in every relationship? having children/cheating/working away everyone has something they think is a deal breaker even if everything else is peachy.

Co habiting over marriage works best when both are signed up to it not just one partner.

"The Rules" has a whole chapter on blokes that won't commit to marry. Basically it says don't complain just move on. He'll either let you go or do what it takes to keep you. If he has no proper reason not to marry you (money isn't one by the way) why would he not want to make you happy.

I find some of the advice in here very bizarre, particularly posts along the lines of getting married in the first couple of years. I have nothing to back this up but i'd be stunned if divorce rates amongst people married

Either way, its concerning how many people, yet again, are so willing to rip up a family for no apparent reason. I often wonder if people realise that there's a real human being, and a real child affected by their advice. At least wait till she either asks him or broaches the subject, and/or finds out why HE doesn't want to get married before jumping to "leave him" or other variants. I can only weep at some of the pop psychology that goes on in here. The amount of people who seem to think because they were married inside a certain amount of time, that that applies as a rule...

I think the extra protection marriage offers in respect of the fact that the OPs partner is in the Forces, is key here.

If he loves her and is committed to her, to their child and to being a family unit forever, he will want her to have that protection.

If he doesn't see giving her that protection as a priority I think that is indicative of him being less committed to the relationship.

You could broach the subject about seeing a solicitor and putting an agreement in place for child support/etc in the event of you splitting up, as you are not as protected as if you are married.

When he pulls the face and says "What do you mean? We're not going to split up!" I'd shrug and say, "Well you know how important marriage is to me and you don't seem to want to do it, despite knowing that I do, and we have a child, so that does suggest you aren't committed, so I need to get financial protection for DC."

I can totally understand the situation that the OP finds herself in, having also met my dh at university so long before marriage was an option that was really on the table, but where we had informally agreed fairly early on that we were in it for the long haul.

What I don't understand, and the OP hasn't really discussed is why she can't say to her partner something along the lines of 'let's get married in the spring', and if he doesn't say yes then have the conversation about why it really matters to you and why waiting isn't an option you find acceptable. Why is it necessary for the DP to propose? It just seems incredibly archaic.

In the meantime I agree BallonSlayer's suggestion makes total sense. dh and I only really started talking seriously about getting married when his mum died and when she was in intensive care I didn't count as family and we realised that if it was one of us hooked up to all the wires that the other would have no rights at all. Not very romantic, but very real.

It's a shame you gave your DS your fathers name when he was registered. In your shoes, I would have given him my own name then when he queried or disputed it I would have said innocently 'but we're not married, so of course he has to have my name. But when we get married we'll have his name changed by deedpoll straight away'! I bet that would've focused the mind.