AIBU to give DP proposal ultimatum?

[justhayley]

Horrible title but.... iv been with DP for 8 1/2 years I'm almost 30 and we have a 15 month old DS. DS wasn't planned (but very much wanted & loved) however ideally I didn't want children until I was married.
I really think DP should be proposing. We've spoken about marriage but when it comes to this subject we both seem pretty crap at communicating.
DP has never said he doesn't want to marry me but after this long and a baby I'm starting to wonder what the hell he's waiting for.
He's in he military and 2 years ago said once he finishes his training we would get engaged. His training finished a year ago and still I don't feel like he's even planning to ask me. In a way I feel like he lead me on a bit.

I don't want him to feel pressured to propose - I want him to do it because he wants to. Evertyime i decide to talk to him about ut i feel like im pressuring him and it makes me feel crap.
However In a way I feel like I also don't want to waste anymore time with someone who just may never ask.
Marriage is important to me, I'm the only person out of all my friends thy isn't marries or engaged and iv been with DP the longest.
His most recent excuse is Money. I'm not buying it. Yes we are not rolling in it and do not have enough cash for a big dream wedding and a
tiffany engagement ring, but we are not so hard up we couldn't pull something lovely
together without going into masses of debt or breaking the bank. I want a marriage not a wedding.

I'm feeling a bit torn should I consider leaving DP and eventually finding someone to be with that wants marriage, start putting some pressure and ultimatums on him, or just stay in what is actually a happy relationship, but risk never getting married & ending up resenting him for it.
What do you think?
Opinions please x

Move on.

Seems like you are convenient to him. Do you just want to be somebodys convenience, or the love of somebodys life?

Either move on or ask him.

Why don't you propose to him? If he says yes then happy days, if he says no then you have your answer...

Sounds like you need to tell him what you've told us, about how important marriage is to you, then see what he says. It is possible he hasn't understood this is so serious that you'd consider breaking up over it. He needs to understand why you feel that way. Otherwise, what's he got to lose by continuing to coast along?

oh yeah and re money

me and dh got married in a registry office with just a few close family, then we all had a meal in a pub, then we spent 2 nights at a spa hotel. the whole thing including our wedding rings cost about £500. so i wouldnt buy the money excuse tbh its just something men say

ok my engagement ring was quite expensive but it didn't have to be. it was the sentiment that counted and if he had have been skint and bought a £20 ring i would still have been as happy :)

As a military girlfriend you are not, and can never be, Next of Kin

You can be an 'Emergency Contact' but that is meaningless when it comes to a lot of things.

I would have thought that was enough for him to give marriage serious consideration.

Moody At the moment we are spending a few thousand on making our new house a home, so a wedding can wait. And "That's just something men say." Met every man have you?

My auntie and uncle have been together almost 30 years unmarried.

It's not the be all and end all.

Right YABabitU.
You "don't want him to feel pressured to propose - I want him to do it because he wants to" but you do want to get married. And you seem to feel if you talk about it then that will be pressure. Nope that will be sensible adult discussion about what goals you have.What do you want more - a super romantic surprise proposal or to be married to this man?

If marriage is important to you (and I think you are in a more vulnerable position unmarried) then say to him, this is really important to me, lets get married and if he says no, then say ok well when and agree a timescale.
If he really doesn't want to then you need to explore his reasons why, some people have very valid reasons to be anti-marriage and your reasons why you so strongly do want to get married. Then decide if this is a situation you can live with.

As an aside I'm very pregnant at the moment and DP and I have decided to get married next summer - we now have a standing joke about whether one of us will propose and who it will be but really it doesn't matter the commitment to wed is there and that was all that mattered to either of us.

If he is posted away, where will you live? For unmarried, you have no access to Forces housing.

And although the Forces tend to recognise NOK by blood or legal ties only, they are more humane these days about mother of children, but is that an issue he wants you to be dealing with, should it arise, at a time of crisis rather that being automatically considered?

I think you should approach it from the pov of 'this is what I want long term from a relationship' (which it sounds like he already knows!) and that if what you both want for your long term futures doesn't match, then ultimately it may not work out.

You are perfectly entitled to feel the way you do about marriage and to leave if he doesn't want it - it is not just a piece of paper - and if he is Forces it is doubly important you get yourself some form of legal protection. AIUI marriage is the only way you can be down as his NOK as far as the MOD is concerned, right?

If he doesn't want to marry AND isn't willing to set up wills and life insurance etc then you should take it as a sign he doesn't really care about you being left up the creek without a paddle if something goes wrong.

I don't think ultimatums are stupid provided that you are not just using them to try and get what you want.

If marriage truly is a dealbreaker for you (and no-one has the right to question why that should be so - you have the right to feel however you feel about marriage) then making that clear to him (an ultimatum by any definition) seems entirely sensible although I personally think a "marriage" ultimatum is far more sensible than a "proposal" ultimatum.

If it is not a deal-breaker for you then I still think you need to talk to him just so that you can, if necessary, re-definte your relationship, future and expectations and not keep hankering after what is not going to be. That conversation should be very different to an ultimatum however.

Don't issue an ultimatum and not mean it. You might not like what you hear and may end up where you never ever wanted to be.

I am horrified at the people suggesting that the op break up their child's family over this, when there's absolutely no suggestion that this would leave her in a better position or that it would be the best thing for their child. Does living with both parents really mean so little to people that they would advocate throwing it away for something which could just be a communication breakdown? OP - I am another one who thinks you should ask him, but if you really don't want to, then why not tell your partner that if he doesn't want to get married, he needs to take care of all the legal paperwork to ensure that you have the rights you would if you were husband and wife?

Okay, maybe marriage is more than a piece of paper, but is it worth throwing away a good relationship just because the other person won't say "I do"? You have a child together, that's a bigger commitment than a marriage ceremony. If you're worried about being left with nothing in the event of death, get him to change his will so that you and DC are cared for financially in the event of an accident, or sort out life insurance for the both of you. You don't need to be married to have financial security.

People divorce everyday and one partner is often left with no home or very little financial support. It's no guarantee of security in the future, unfortunately.

I agree splitting a family up for this would not be sensible in my humble opinion. But, surely giving someone an ultimatum is basically saying 'Marry me or else'. Ultimatums only mean something if you intend to do the opposite should the outcome not be to your liking.

OP you say you do not want to waste any more time with someone that may never ask you to marry him. How important is getting married to you? What if you do speak to your partner and he confirms he doesn't want to marry and possibly may never want to marry, would you stay or would you leave?

This whole waiting for a proposal thing is a throwback to the days when women were dependent on men. Marriage, life together, is a joint effort and the way it's organised is just as much your decision as his. He's probably just dragging his feet a bit, prepare your thoughts and counter his objections. This is what I did with DP. He said, there's no difference, it's just a piece of paper, and I listed the differences. Wham bam, ring on finger

A bloke's point of view here.

When I was younger, I had two kids with my ex. She'd have loved to have got married. Me? I was never keen on the idea. It's just a piece of paper, getting a house and having kids etc is much more commitment right?

We split up and later I lived with another woman for about 5 years. Same again. What's the point in marriage? My parents got divorced, in fact most people I know have divorced at some point. There's only like two couples I know who haven't. Just a whole waste of money. I might as well just have given her half the house and save the legal fees!

I just felt that I was not the marrying type. I was just too logical and marriage is an emotional commitment.

Then I met my current partner. We were together for oooh about 2 weeks and I decided that I wanted to marry her. Stupid eh? Still, after two years of living together I couldn't think of anything I wanted more so I proposed. We're getting married next month.

Looking back it was clear that I just hadn't met the right one. Every reason I trotted out was just an excuse. Sure, marriage is a bit of paper which will complicate any potential divorce. But whereas once I saw that as a negative, now I see it as a positive. If it is harder for us to break up, hopefully we'll work harder to make our relationship work. Am I making sense?

In OP's case obviously only her partner will know the real reason. But just thought I'd throw in my experience.

That said, I recently met a couple who have been together for 16 years and only now are getting married. I jokingly asked if he'd run out of excuses and the look he shot me pretty much told me that he had!

If you issue an ultimatum and he does agree IMHO you will always feel like you made him do it, not nice surely?
Either ask him or just keep the lines of communication open and be clear it's something that you want, but don't want it just because your friends have done it, be clear about your reasons for doing it.
I was with my OH for 15 yrs before we got married, we talked about it quite regularly, neither of us felt we wanted to for a while, lots of our friends were doing it and we didn't just want to do it in an 'us too' way. We just kept chatting occasionally about it over the years, and when we eventually did get married 3 years ago it was because it was the right time for us, not for any other reason. I would never have issued an ultimatum and nor would he, marriage isn't about getting your own way. Just ask him, or at least ask him directly of he wants to some day. The take it from there, but just keep talking. Little point in getting married if you can't even talk about it calmly.

Okay, maybe marriage is more than a piece of paper, but is it worth throwing away a good relationship just because the other person won't say "I do"? You have a child together, that's a bigger commitment than a marriage ceremony.

If my partner felt so against marriage that he wouldn't do it, knowing how important it was to me, then the relationship really wouldn't be that 'good' quite frankly. Marriage is actually very important to some people, for it's financial significance, the fact that someone is willing to be committed 'at law', and (especially in my case) in the eyes of God and the church. If it was nothing more than a piece of paper, then they wouldn't be so against marriage, would they?!

Having children should be a commitment, yes, but there's many, many parents whose lack of involvement in their childrens' lives that proves that it really isn't that big a commitment to everyone.

Although I agree with many of the PP's about marriage not being the be all and end all, it's a completely different kettle of fish when you're with someone in the forces.

By not marrying, you're forfeiting the chance to live in subsidised housing (albeit a bit shit in some cases), an increase in take-home, the chance to live in a forces community (because you're not in army housing), being able to use army dental and medical practices, being his next of kin...and that's before you take into account the security being married gives you should you break up or if he's moved to Germany or Cyprus. The perks aren't amazing, but they go some way to making up for the lack of stability.

DP is in the army and he's been told that if I get pregnant we're getting married. Even if it's the two of us in City Hall on my lunch break, it's happening.

Are there really women out there just sat around waiting, hoping that their DP will ask them to marry them? I must admit I was never bothered whether I got married and neither was DF (he made it clear and I made it clear). We were quite happy together so for me it was a genuine surprise when he asked me. It would never have crossed my mind to give him an ultimatum. But even if I had wanted it I would never have given him an ultimatum because it would have always played on my mind that he never truly wanted to marry me. He only did it because of the ultimatum. So then the choice is leave and find someone with similar priorities. Mutually discussing marriage is different to an ultimatum. If you discuss and agree that it's what you both want then fine. But saying marrying me or else sounds a bit weird to me. Again we never wanted children (both of us have always been career focused and no time of kids etc. ect.) and now we are due to have our first - its amazing how things change. But I guess for me I loved him and he loved me and we both knew that was regardless of a ring so marriage wasn't the think that made us happy. And when he asked I immediately said yes because I loved him and can't see a future without him been part of my life. But the thought that there are women sat at home/work or wherever feeling really upset and pee'd off that their DP hasn't asked them is really sad (in a depressing kind of way). That is a throw back to the days where marriage was the most important achievement in a woman's life.... OP this note is not aimed at you. Just my rambling thoughts.

DIYApprentice you say "If my partner felt so against marriage that he wouldn't do it, knowing how important it was to me, then the relationship really wouldn't be that 'good' quite frankly."

Yes, but surely as a couple you discuss these things? This is what I don't understand. People commit to others by having a child and buying a house, but don't discuss getting married? I certainly wouldn't buy a house with someone I wasn't prepared to marry one day, and I'd have discussed this with my partner beforehand. DP and I have already decided we'll get married in the future so not a problem, but I wouldn't commit to a house or kids with him if we hadn't talked about marriage first.

you have a child and he is a serving soldier. You need the following:

• to be his official next of kin
• to have financial arrangements if he dies
• to have arrangements for the child if he dies, you dies or you both die before the child is independent.

you don't do ultimatums, hints or other crap. You sit down and sort these things out like adults. It is easiest to get married (half an hour in the registry office) and make wills afterwards. You can do it without marriage if you want, but it is harder.

that's what it is all about. These things need to be sorted for your child.

Having children is not necessarily that much of a commitment. It should be but it isn't and even where it is, it may only be a sign of commitment to the child not the mother.

At least a marriage you have to (in most cases) think about and plan and make a decision about. In the OP's case the child was not planned (much loved and now wanted yes of course) but you cannot necessarily take having a child together as sign of "commitment" in those circumstances and maybe it is because of this that the OP would like a more active sign of commitment to her from her DP.

I never get the whole "just a piece of paper" position. That's fine and valid as a view if both parties feel that way. But if one person in the couple feels that marriage is more than that and the other feels it is "just a piece of paper" then how come so many people feel so little for their partner that they are unwilling to provide them with "just a piece of paper" knowing that it means so much to them? I think the truth is more like Niceguy says - somewhere deep down they feel it is more than a piece of paper and know that it is too important a "piece of paper" to sign with the wrong person.