Ex wants to take DD to Australia

[skippy84]

Looking for some honest opinions on this please. Ex and I split this time last year (his decision) we have a daughter who is two (three in October) since the split I have tried to facilitate as much contact between them as possible he has her a couple of nights a week and sees her in-between we also do things together the three of us at weekends or go out for dinner during the week. It has been hard for me to have this much contact with him particularly early on when I was very hurt over the split but I have always been very conscious of not letting my feelings get in the way of them having a great relationship.

My dilemma is this; his only sister and her family emigrated last week to Australia for work. Since he found out about their plans he has been asking to take DD to Australia for two weeks in the winter to see them. I have told him from the start that I am not comfortable with this. I think she is too young to be away from her main caregiver for that length of time. The main reason is that it's too far away and I am terrified that i wouldn't be able to get to her in an emergency. Also I think a flight of that length is too much to ask of a very active toddler for the sake of a two week holiday. He is taking this badly and keeps pushing the subject. I wouldn't mind but when his sister lived an hour up the road he only brought DD to see them maybe twice in the last year so it's not like they're particularly close. I have tried to be reasonable and even suggested if he was really set on it I would fly out with them and visit friends in another part of Australia for the two weeks just to get over my fear of her being so far away. He said he didn't want this either.

He brought this up again today and said he feels I am
just saying no to get at him or punish him for breaking up with me when this is really not the case at all. I feel like I have been so accommodating to him in all this and he just throws it back in my face because he can't get his own way in this scenario. I just wish he would accept my decision and stop pushing it.

AIBU?

Also typical male he has been disloyal and now he is trying to justify his actions by making her seem unreasonable

What an unpleasant judgement. He wants to take his daughter on holiday, which us more than many absent (or indeed present) fathers do.

Many hundreds of small children fly thousands of miles every day and don't find the 'discomfort' too debilitating.

It sounds as though you're a bit jealous that he's giving her this amazing opportunity not you.

Your objections are a bit selfish.

Good idea to be there at the same time if it makes you happier though.

There are many 'amazing opportunities' that are closer than a 24 hour flight away. I don't know why Australia is so rated. The summers are hideous.

An 'amazing opportunity' for a 3 year old would just be the chance to play with her dad and be the focus of his attention. All these long haul flight destinations are purely for the adults to get excited about. I don't believe for a moment that your average 3 year old would either know or care about their holiday destination.

YANBU. I would hate my young child to be in another country to me. I don't think a toddler should be away from its main carer for that long. Your compromise was more then fair. Refuse till she is older. Put your compromise in writing so you can prove it if it comes to court. Most people will realise few mothers would want their child on the other side of the world to them at 2 or 3 years old! Only some people deny the importance of mother or main care giver or are obsessed over exact same contact.

I don't think Yabu together or not I wouldn't want DP to take ds that far away for 2 weeks at that age. A holiday maybe but the other side of the world. As you said if anything were to happen you are a very long way away and accidents happen not saying he would snatch her away. He could wait a while and it would be a great experience when she's older I went when I was 15 for a month and it was mind blowing we did everything. But to be honest if I was much younger I wouldn't have appreciated it half as much I would of been as happen in Spain or even Blackpool

oh yes and the heat. For a child who is used to the UK! She will spend the entire time indoors. How horrid. Your DP is definitely only thinking of himself in thinking this is a good idea. I'm not usually this vociferous but I really, really don't think you should do this. Your DP sounds a bit flaky and immature - he's walked out of a relationship where he was committed and had a baby to think of; he now wants to head off to a inappropriate location and bans you from the country; he doesn't seem to show you respect and consideration as his DD's mummy... I personally would feel the jury was still out on how stringently he'd protect a tiny child in a strange location. Does he drink? Is absolutely sure who is going to be staying in the house at all times? Has he done his homework on how to help DD through the stress of being in a new environment without Mummy? And how likely is it that female relatives will end up doing all, or most, of the childcare? That's definitely no help to your DD for an extended period of time! I've seen unsettled children who have lost their anchor. It's heartbreaking. Your DD will not understand where you have gone, nor will she understand when you're coming back! She is not equipped to handle the emotions that will entail. Please don't go. Although you may be saintly enough to take it on the chin, there's also the possibility that she could get home and reject you, however briefly. Why put her in that position?

Sometimes you need to be selfish as a mother to tiny kids. There's a reason why female animals protecting their young are the most dangerous in nature. It's necessary.

Yabu. If the shoe was on the other foot and it was your family in Australia, I reckon you'd be out there like a shot. He is her father and has absolutely equal rights.

FWIW my DH took our 2.8 year old abroad for 4 weeks to spend time with his family - I couldn't go due to work commitments. It was fine.

I wonder how the general consensus would be different if it were OP's family in Australia and the ex was 'uncomfortable' with the long flight?

I suspect there'd be a long chain of posters telling OP to ignore him and he's being a twunt.

So based on that YABU.

www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/9737/Parenting-Arrangements-for-0-to-4-year-olds-September-2011.pdf

is this the rersearch?

I don?t think that either parent should be allowed to dictate. And IMO two nights a week plus stuff on weekends sounds like 50/50 to me rather than op being the ?main carer,?

But that aside, one of the hardest things about splitting up with someone is that the children come first. And that means that you missing your child is not important in the scheme of things and absolutely is not grounds to be allowed to veto a holiday just because you don?t like it.

Reality is that your daughter will be with her father. He is no less a parent than you are, and in all honesty, she will not pine away without you, as hard as it is to admit that as a parent ? children really can cope without one parent or the other for a couple of weeks, esp if they are with their other parent.

If the op was wanting to take her dd on holiday to Australia the response on this thread would be vastly different.

Would you expect HIM to allow you take your dd to visit your friend in Australia, on your own?

You'd still be several hours away from her in another part of Australia, op!

oh yes and the heat. For a child who is used to the UK! She will spend the entire time indoors. How horrid

Don't be so dramatic! How do you think Aussie kids survive? Plenty of water, sunscreen, keep covered up & outta the sun at the hottest times.

Australia does have cold weather too, he doesn't have to choose to go at the height of summer.

MrRected Parents don't have rights, only responsibilities.

differentname Er, they are used to it? The OP has stated the trip is proposed for the winter. I find it a massive PITA keeping my toddler out of the sun in the UK when it's hot, it's much harder to have fun IMO. I wouldn't contemplate taking her on holiday somewhere really hot. I know many feel differently but for us, no one would have much fun.

I wouldn't have wanted to go away for two weeks with my dad and not my mum when I was tiny, and I lived with both parents. No reflection on my dad, it would just have seemed an eternity to be without my mum.

niceguy OP is U based on the hypothetical response of posters to a different original post. OK then.

It's not about the father's rights or even the mother's rights.
This is about what's good for the child.

I am not really sure how separating a toddler from their main carer, and FAMILIAR surroundings will help them in their development? This trip is purely for the benefit of the EX.

OP, you sound like you have been very reasonable in dealing with your EX but that he might be making unreasonable demands.
I also think that ultimately, you should trust your 'gut instinct' as you know the situation best. It's too easy to be swayed by differing opinions. This is your reality, and your life after all.

Sorry, haven't read all the thread, only got to the bit about 'signed agreements' on taking a child out of the country.

Totally necessary and not an overeaction.

Me and my separated DH do this for any trip out of the country DD was born in, every time.

I have actually needed to produce it once.

One thought OP, is her going on his own on this flight? Are you sure of it?

I don't see this trip as 'an amazing opportunity' for the dd either. My BIL lives in Australia and so they have done the trip a few times (then emigrated and are now returning). It looks like an absolute killer. Both parents and children are exhausted for days at either end of the flights, and I would say that a 2/3 year old is the worst age for traveling. He is visiting a sister who will only have been our there for six months, and who he didn't see very much in the UK, so not a close and much loved relative.

My dh took my two children for a trip to Canada when they were 4/5 and we had recently separated and although they had fun I found it very hard (and got really really bothered about them not coming back) plus keeping in contact was very hard with the time difference, and when they were sad that was hard too. We had a 50:50 set up at the time and dh has always been a very hands on father, so I had no worries about their care (although he did make some decisions which when I discovered made me very angry). I would not have said yes to two weeks, nor would I have suggested a holiday that long for me either. Oh and 8 years later they can hardly remember anything they did.

OP can you perhaps say yes for next year, so it seems less obstructive (and when it will probably be more enjoyable all round for everyone).

Oh yes, we did the signed letter for dh, when he took the children to Canada and it was asked for too.

YY Nooka glad you have backed me up on that - it is needed, especially as the DD will have to have some sort of temporary visa.

Personally, with a now 5 yr old DD, I know the OP s DD will not remember any of it at all.

Much better to do it in a few years.

I did this trip on my own with DD when she was 2 and it was an experience I never want to repeat. There is no way on earth my DP would have managed it - she didn't sleep at all on the flight (30+ hours of travelling), I couldn't sleep as I needed to watch her, and then the jet lag at the other end was horrendous. Add trying to carry all the bags, passports, tired and grumpy children, finding food they'll eat, adjusting too big headphones every 15 seconds for 30 hours, dealing with trays/toys/dropped things/"no don't kick the seat in front" x 14,000, ears hurting at take off, nappy changing, changing wet clothes etc. Honestly, having done that trip I can cope with just about anything life flings at me and it won't be as bad.

Unless he is the most patient, attentive, thoughtful parent on the planet it will not be fun for anybody. She won't remember a thing and can experience the sun and sand anywhere else. Tell him to put the cost of her flight into a savings account for her and that you'll do what you can to facilitate a more age appropriate trip closer to home.

OP if your DD would find it difficult to be away from you for that long then I think you're fine to say no.

Niceguy I have to say Important a tad disappointed: you usually gave interesting and insightful things to say but sweeping statements about posters you don't know that much about is grossly unfair. Id be willing to be that there are several posters on here who would say exactly what they've said if it were the other way around and dad wad the main caregiver and mum wanted to take child to Australia to family living out there.

My advice to any parent would be NOT to take a child under five on a long haul flight. It is grim, for you, the child and everyone around you. Unless there is some burning crucial reason, why do it? There is no way that is an experience of enjoyment or benefit for the child, this is all about what the adult wants.

Thanks for the link Susan, that is really interesting. I think the research the English Judges have been relying on is the 2010 Separated Parenting research by Mcintosh. There really needs to be more robust ways of getting information from the psychologists to the lawyers as I only tend to find out about stuff by chance.

I agree with others who say that this would not be the best for the child. I think it's unnecessarily far to travel for a holiday. She won't have any appreciation of the fact that she's in Australia. I also agree that it's unfair to take her away from her main carer ( and 2 nights a week with outings at the weekend does not sound like equal-care to me) She's too young now. Maybe in a few years when she would actually get excited about the trip and want to go it would be different but now I think he is being unreasonable by trying to force the issue.

There can be a bit of a strange competitive streak on MN about how laid back a parent you can be and I think there may some evidence of that on this thread.

Spero My advice to any parent would be NOT to take a child under five on a long haul flight. It is grim, for you, the child and everyone around you.

Sorry, but that is just not good advice. First, it is just a means to get there and (as in both this instance and in my own case) if you have family on the other side of the world it is the only way to go and see them.

Secondly, it's not that bad. Honestly, it is quite possible to take children on planes without self-destructing.

Spero My advice to any parent would be NOT to take a child under five on a long haul flight. It is grim, for you, the child and everyone around you

Well we did it twice with dd1 (at 20mths for holiday & when we emigrated - she was three) then did it with dd2 who was 4.

None of the trips were grim at all.