Ex wants to take DD to Australia

[skippy84]

Looking for some honest opinions on this please. Ex and I split this time last year (his decision) we have a daughter who is two (three in October) since the split I have tried to facilitate as much contact between them as possible he has her a couple of nights a week and sees her in-between we also do things together the three of us at weekends or go out for dinner during the week. It has been hard for me to have this much contact with him particularly early on when I was very hurt over the split but I have always been very conscious of not letting my feelings get in the way of them having a great relationship.

My dilemma is this; his only sister and her family emigrated last week to Australia for work. Since he found out about their plans he has been asking to take DD to Australia for two weeks in the winter to see them. I have told him from the start that I am not comfortable with this. I think she is too young to be away from her main caregiver for that length of time. The main reason is that it's too far away and I am terrified that i wouldn't be able to get to her in an emergency. Also I think a flight of that length is too much to ask of a very active toddler for the sake of a two week holiday. He is taking this badly and keeps pushing the subject. I wouldn't mind but when his sister lived an hour up the road he only brought DD to see them maybe twice in the last year so it's not like they're particularly close. I have tried to be reasonable and even suggested if he was really set on it I would fly out with them and visit friends in another part of Australia for the two weeks just to get over my fear of her being so far away. He said he didn't want this either.

He brought this up again today and said he feels I am
just saying no to get at him or punish him for breaking up with me when this is really not the case at all. I feel like I have been so accommodating to him in all this and he just throws it back in my face because he can't get his own way in this scenario. I just wish he would accept my decision and stop pushing it.

AIBU?

[FiftyShadesofGreyMatter]

Your dd will get nothing from this trip at her age. I have experience of this.

[Spero]

I said if there is an important reason, then yes you go. The sister appears to be in good health and will be in Australia for at least the next few years I assume as she is emigrating, so I am not understanding the urgent need to go this Christmas (when weather is arguably the worst for young children)

And for those of you who cope, well good for you. I found it horrible. My daughter could not sleep, got very distressed and didn't like any of the food on offer. We weren't allowed to take her milk in for her as she wasn't a baby.

I was with my ex at the time - I don't think I could have coped on my own.

[BeCool]

the flight for a 2/3yo really isn't an issue (I've done it many times).

But YANBU to not want your DD to go such a long way without you. But I guess they will go eventually.

part of this separated parenting (I do it too) is learning to trust that the other parent can and will parent their way. They may do things differently, which is hard, but still they are entitled to make their own decisions.

[BeCool]

I've done longer flights than UK-Oz with 4 week old, 5 month old, 10 month old, 2 year old, 4 year old - not one flight was even close to grim.

[Spero]

Maybe the clue is that you have done it 'many times'. And that the primary carer is travelling with the very young children.

I have done it as an adult and hated it - at least 30 hours in transit. It took me a week to get over it.

I have done it with a 2 1/2 year old and found it even more grim.

Clearly my experiences don't speak for all. But if it is your first time trying it, you are travelling economy and you are coping with a very small child who may be missing her mum, sounds a recipe for disaster frankly.

And this is just for a jolly! no one is dying, no one is getting married. Not something I would entertain, but it is for the op who knows her daughter and what she can cope with to make the call. She has certainly got a number of perspectives, which probably just makes it more confusing...

[HebeJeeby]

Sorry but I think YABU and I think this is more about how you will feel rather than DD. I know you would miss her but surely her dad has a right to see her. You say you are uncomfortable with the length of the flight, yet overcome this objection but saying that she could go if you went with her. You either object to the flight time or you don't. For those that say it's not good for a child under 4 to be separated from their primary carer for too long, well the dad sees his daughter quite a lot in this case, so its not like she doesn't know him and has no bond with him already. From personal experience I know that my DD coped not seeing me for 4 months when she had just turned 3, as I had to go to Afghanistan. DD was just fine with her dad, it was me that was a complete mess and head case being without her, so I do understand where you are coming from and do sympathise. However, my DD is now 6 and there were no problems with her during or after my tour of duty, she is a very happy, loving and well adjusted little girl.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Hebe, he does see her and its not the dad who lives abroad.

[Spero]

Hebe, the point the research is making is that little children often need to identify with a carer and an environment to feel truly secure. It is particularly difficult for them at night times when they may feel more anxious and don't have the capacity to communicate well with adults.

Your little girl was at home with her dad while you were away. So clearly it is not the same as removing a very young child not only from her primary carer but also her home environment.

Of course individual children will react differently. but I think it is worth paying attention to research that appears to have been well conducted and looking at a large number of children -which is how I understand McIntosh's research.

Its not about men v women or mothers automatically being better. But if we all mean what we say that our actions as separated parents should be directed at what is best for the child, we should seriously consider the research in this field.

[fabergeegg]

To those who are saying they've done the flight many times and it wasn't an issue - come on! Maybe that was the case for you, but how is it relevant given that:

• You're mums who live in the family home with your kids. It's easier for you. You're not a first-time access visit dad.
  
• You're experienced with children.
  
• You weren't taking charge of a child whose primary carer has been left behind.
  
• As anyone who has been on a long haul flight could confirm, your experience is definitely not par for the course!

[fabergeegg]

hebe Just because your DD managed when you chose to go away for four months does not mean that the OP is any more obliged to do so or that you have a right to question her motives. You chose to ignore gut instinct and become a head case. Fine. Your choice. I happen to think that no mother in her right mind, once having bought into the responsibility of having children, should then allow long periods of distance when they are still tiny and vulnerable. We don't have to have children. There are no rights, just responsibilities. All that matters is the child's welfare. And how can you question the OP's motives when she's bent over backwards and gone through great emotional pain and inconvenience, all because she's committed to promoting this relationship? At what point does her suffering become relevant. If you want to blame someone for being selfish, surely you would have a far stronger case against the ex, who will not allow the OP to be in the country at the same time as the DD?

Similarly, extended families have no rights, just responsibilities to show love. If the OP's DD needs to know extended family members who love her, but it is not yet appropriate for her to go on such a long visit, let them visit her and get to know her in a way that is not stressful or upsetting for her. Let them take the crazy hour change, long flight and time away from primary caregiver/familiar surroundings. They're grown-ups. the OP's DD is not a show for their entertainment. She's a person without a voice in all this. What will all this faffing around with rights have to do with a child who is confused and unsettled and doesn't understand where Mummy's gone? No adult 'right' should be implemented when that is the outcome.

My brothers were racing through Heathrow within hours of DD's birth. They would never have expected me to bring DD to them - not for one moment.

[Cherriesarelovely]

The more I read of this thread the worse I feel about the prospect of allowing the exp to take the little girl so far away for so long. I think it is a very unreasonable request on his part and,sorry, I think it is very unusual for a mum to be ok with this when her dd is that young.

[Pennyacrossthehall]

People keep wittering on about the "primary carer won't be with the child."

We are talking about the child's father. He is not some random stranger. Worse, if you keep blocking him from taking his child away you are actively preventing him from becoming a "primary" carer.

Let them go. If it turns out the flight is grim, he will just have to deal with it.

[Cherriesarelovely]

I really don't mean to cause offence hebe. I think it is different in your case because your dd was staying at home.

[Pennyacrossthehall]

fabergeegg
hebe Just because your DD managed when you chose to go away for four months does not mean that the OP is any more obliged to do so or that you have a right to question her motives. You chose to ignore gut instinct and become a head case. Fine. Your choice.

fabergegg, I don't think that is a fair comment. As I read hebe's comment, she was posted overseas - I'm not in the services but I don't think you can get out of that without going awol (or whatever the correct term is). People outside the services also have to do business trips / secondments.

hebe's points were that it apparently had a greater effect on her than her child and that her DP managed just fine.

[Cherriesarelovely]

My impression is that op isn't blocking him per se she has said if the destination were closer or her dd was older she would be ok with it.

[Spero]

It is hardly 'wittering' to point out what circumstances and issues are relevant should this become an application to court.

Just because you are related to a child does not automatically endow you with the capacity to meet that child's needs. Another interesting thing about blackeyedsusans link was the consideration of hierarchy of attachment.

This child will be barely 3 years old at the time of the proposed trip. I think that is very relevant.

[Spero]

Fabergegg, yes I wish all these people who sail serenely through long haul flights with their new borns had been on my airplanes. Sadly I seemed only to meet the more usual types of parents.

[nooka]

If the trip was necessary I am sure that the OP, her ex and her dd would cope with it. But it's not necessary. This is not about visiting close family that have never seen the dd and who would therefore treasure the trip. This is just a holiday to visit a sister who has chosen to emigrate, will only have been out there six months and is planning on a permanent move. The trip could just as easily happen the year after when the split will be less raw and the dd that little bit older and better able to cope.

My experience from flying long haul relatively frequently is that toddlers are the worst travellers. They get tired and fractious, they are too big for bassinets, too small for in flight entertainment to really occupy, they aren't easy to reason with and they want to run around. I don't mind sitting next to babies or small children, but my heart really really drops if there is a toddler nearby, and that's on 'just' a ten hour flight!

[HebeJeeby]

Pennyacrossthehall

Thank you for putting my point across more succinctly than I did. For what it's worth I was in the military and had no choice about serving overseas - yes my choice, but my point was not to criticise (I did say I understood and sympathised with the OP) but to say that children are more robust than we think. OK maybe not all but lots.

[Pennyacrossthehall]

Spero Just because you are related to a child does not automatically endow you with the capacity to meet that child's needs.

Yes, that is where every parent starts and then they learn . . . .

[HebeJeeby]

I am prepared to admit that I might have a different attitude towards children being separated from their parents that others on this thread, as it really is the norm in the military, or at least something we all expect to do at some point in our careers and so we either have to adjust and get on with it or leave.

[Spero]

Not all of them sadly. My ex didn't.

I don't want to hijack the thread - the op has made it clear this is an involved and committed father. But he doesn't live with his child. He is not the one who does the majority of the care.

And she will only be 3 at time of trip.

In what bizarre world is this op to be criticised for finding his proposals worrying?

[pinkballetflats]

In this bizzare wired, Spero. I sometimes feel that the need for political correctness and a redress of the balance of mothers often being the residential parent that what is actually best for a child gets lost in people straining to be PC. If someone dares to question something based on what is actually best for the child they are often accuses of being sexist and anti-fathers.

[fabergeegg]

Differentnameforthis - you clearly don't know much about children coping with heat - or the thread. The OP's ex is proposing to go at the height of summer. Children living in hot countries acclimatise. We are planning a trip to India with a child who will be the same age, but we wouldn't dream of trying it in summer, regardless of the Indian children who will be surviving perfectly well! Also, I was making the point that it will be necessary for the child to spend a lot of time indoors at that time of the year, especially as she's used to the UK, detracting from the idea that it would be an unmissable experience (although that's hard to credit anyway since children of this age don't tend to value what they're supposed to, because everything is new and exciting). We have friends from Arizona, now living in the UK. They don't have the expectations of their DD that they would have if she lived there.

[maddy68]

I think your feelings are totally understandable however she will be fine with her dad and her extended family.
It's you who is worrying unnecessarily tbh.
It is a long flight but that's her dads concern and worry.

I think you should let her go. I do know how hard it is for you