Ex wants to take DD to Australia

[skippy84]

Looking for some honest opinions on this please. Ex and I split this time last year (his decision) we have a daughter who is two (three in October) since the split I have tried to facilitate as much contact between them as possible he has her a couple of nights a week and sees her in-between we also do things together the three of us at weekends or go out for dinner during the week. It has been hard for me to have this much contact with him particularly early on when I was very hurt over the split but I have always been very conscious of not letting my feelings get in the way of them having a great relationship.

My dilemma is this; his only sister and her family emigrated last week to Australia for work. Since he found out about their plans he has been asking to take DD to Australia for two weeks in the winter to see them. I have told him from the start that I am not comfortable with this. I think she is too young to be away from her main caregiver for that length of time. The main reason is that it's too far away and I am terrified that i wouldn't be able to get to her in an emergency. Also I think a flight of that length is too much to ask of a very active toddler for the sake of a two week holiday. He is taking this badly and keeps pushing the subject. I wouldn't mind but when his sister lived an hour up the road he only brought DD to see them maybe twice in the last year so it's not like they're particularly close. I have tried to be reasonable and even suggested if he was really set on it I would fly out with them and visit friends in another part of Australia for the two weeks just to get over my fear of her being so far away. He said he didn't want this either.

He brought this up again today and said he feels I am
just saying no to get at him or punish him for breaking up with me when this is really not the case at all. I feel like I have been so accommodating to him in all this and he just throws it back in my face because he can't get his own way in this scenario. I just wish he would accept my decision and stop pushing it.

AIBU?

It doesn't sound like you're being unreasonable to be honest! You came up with a compromise so it's his problem if he can't do the same!

A friend's just back from Australia with her 2yo and husband, and I quote "never again". Too young for the journey even with 2 parents there. Jet-lagged while there (the full 3 weeks) and also jet-lagged on return. No-one enjoyed it (they stayed with family who are unused to toddlers awake all night , jet lagged and A but young to realise what was happening.)

Strange food, people, home. No mum?

Do you think he has thought through the practicalities beyond "sister / Australia / free holiday"?

Oops- not jet lagged for 3 weeks, jet lagged initially then ill from picking up an infection that needed antibiotics, and unhappy for the entire trip. Mum and dad both there for stability and comfort, but still a "horrible trip".

My Ds was 3.2 when I took him to Australia for a month and the only thing he remembers is a Manta Ray swimming over the tunnel in the Sydney Aquarium and that's probably because he saw the photo!

I wouldn't allow it. He's fooled you before- I think you didn't see the walk out coming. Oz for a fortnight. Deeply suspicious. Short skip over to New Zealand..... No no no way.

I can't understand the argument that she won't remember it.

My children don't remember meeting their great-grandmother in the years before she died. Perhaps at the time I should have scrapped those visits as a waste of time as the children would not remember her

Any opportunity can be taken for children to spend time and build friendships/share good times with family. Especially family who they won't get to see very often.

Australia and New Zealand are not mysterious lands where abducted children go missing. They are as hot as you like on immigration.

"I wouldn't allow it. He's fooled you before- I think you didn't see the walk out coming. Oz for a fortnight. Deeply suspicious. Short skip over to New Zealand..... No no no way"

Interesting - so you don't see it as a "primary carer" issue, or even a "such a young child" issue. You just "wouldn't allow it" and that's that? Until what age?

I think the remembering point is important because I assume this will be a very expensive trip. Seems bonkers to spend that kind of money when she is 3 and may spend much of trip whinging.

I assume as his sister has emigrated she is spending a few years there so he can go when his daughter is older. I also assume his sister is not as old as your typical great grandmother so the clock is perhaps ticking a bit less urgently there.

And be honest - visits between very young children and very old adults are unlikely to be of much interest or benefit to the very young children - they are arranged to give pleasure to the adults involved.

I have a 2 year old dd, I wouldnt allow her to fly to other side of the world for 2 weeks with anyone!!! .....Jeeeeeez!!!

Thanks everyone for your input, you have given me an awful lot to think over.

Firstly I just want to reiterate that the risk of ex not returning with DD is not something that concerns me at all. He has no ties to Australia and has a job and life here that he is very invested in. I trust him 100% on this and though I know you can never be certain it really is not even vaguely a consideration in my decision making on this.

Though I genuinely thought my reasoning was based on what is best for DD I am now increasingly questioning this. I think maybe the dominant factor is my fear about having her so far away and my concerns about her missing me ect and honestly I haven't been thinking of ex as an equal parent because she lives with me 5 + days a week.

I guess I have been seeing myself as her stable anchor with him as a very welcome addition but not an equal in all this. I think I really need to revisit how I view the whole shared parenting situation and maybe review my decision on the trip.

I do trust him with her and I don't want to deprive her of enjoyable experiences because of my unwillingness to 'let go'. It's just very hard, I never anticipated being in this situation and having to make these compromises.

Skippy you sound lovely. All the best whatever you do

Thanks so much and to everyone else who replied - definitely an eye opener!

A big positive for your dd, whenever and if ever she goes, would be an extended time with her dad.

You're a really great mum, OP and it is so very obvious that your ex accusing you of being spiteful is way off base.

You have got to do what is right for your daughter, doing your best to make sure that decision is not clouded by any feelings of resentment or dislike of her dad.

It sounds as though you are trying your utmost to do that.

BUT it is it not unreasonable or wrong to be worried about pre school children being away from their primary careers for extended period of time. This is not unreasoned misandry, assuming dads aren't important, but results of Australian research that is now being relied on by courts in England and Wales.

Yes, she needs and deserves a good relationship with her dad. Just curious as to why he thinks this kind of trip is best way to demonstrate that. I suspect this is more about his needs than hers. This is not the kind of trip such a small child is likely to enjoy.

I assume the Australian research is from Jennifer MacKintosh?

I think, and what her research seems to say it that 50-50 isnt good if the parents are hostile, and lets face it two hostile parents aren't any good for children no matter what the split of child care.

I don't quite get her primary carer argument, as with this argument children shouldn't go to Nursey or child minders.

skippy

I feel for you, my 2 year old DS will spend 3 weeks away from me this summer with his Dad. I was worried, and then DS started to really grow up, and be less clingy, but its hard

If I am being honest, whilst i 1000% understand and emphasise I think alot of is it about you, put it another way I reckon you would mind alot less if you guys were still together??

flight, thats a non issue as 10000s of kids do it
distance, I get it. But thats more about your worries
emotions, thats the hard one that I think you need to get your head around

I think you need to have a good think about this, and you do have my sympathies its a hard decision to make

You are putting a lot of care and thought into your approach to this problem while keeping your DD's happiness at the centre of everything.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask you ex to consider your feelings and those of your DD in this.

You and your DD live together and see each other for a good part of every day. It sounds like your lives very much centre on each other. You will miss her and missing you will probably be quite a large element of her experience of the holiday.

Of course your ex has the right to have time alone with his daughter and to take her to nice places. I just wonder whether upsetting both of you by taking her a long way away for a long time is fair on her or you.

You may not have the right to stop this trip in some people's eyes but he has a responsibility to consider the effect it will have on everyone involved.

Dadthelion - yes it is JM but sheis not talking about hostile parents or going to nursery etc. she is talking about overnight stays and the potential for this to have stressful impact. You may be thinking about her earlier research as to how the Australian presumption of shared care was working out.

I have had this used against me when representing fathers and judges are keen to follow it, I suspect it has been part of judicial training as the first I heard of it was last year when a judge raised it off his own bat.

I can see the point, particularly for a young child who isn't verbal, how does he or she communicate clearly if upset or worried by something 'different' about their environment? This is not to say that Nrp are not 'good' parents but that for young children it may cause them stress to be removed overnight from their most familiar environment.

Just wondered if you could look at any positives from your dd going? I think it could be a opportunity for your ex and dd to really bond.If your ex does care for your dd then he will look after her and meet her needs.It could be a wonderful experience for them and a positive relationship with a caring dad is invaluable.My dd is now a young adult, but like you I separated from her dad.She has such good memories of their time together which I'm sure has contributed to her development.We are extremely close and she is so grateful that I 'shared' her with her dad and other relatives.It means she has a strong network of support which makes her feel very secure.

If they went could you use the time for yourself?

I think your ex sounds incredibly unpleasant. After all the efforts you've made to accommodate him and ensure he's not excluded from your DD's life, he now won't even agree to your being in another part of Australia seeing friends! That has to be more about him than about your DD's needs since there is no way that having her mum on a long flight could be anything but a huge bonus for her. Also, you're well rid of a man like that. He doesn't seem to care at all that you might find it easier if you were in the country and could come if necessary.

I think you're perhaps being too nice here. How are you going to meet someone new when you're putting your heart and soul into pretending to still be a family? Is your DP going to put aside as much time when he meets someone new? How will you feel then, given that it's hard to be an older single woman than an older single man? And why does he feel entitled to take your DD away for two weeks anyway? Does he not realise a child needs her mother? You certainly seem to appreciate that she needs her dad too. Where's the effort from him?

I don't think parenting is an equal playing field, actually. The roles are just different and equally important. For the day-to-day stuff, the comfort and stability of a Mummy is so important and Daddy is not a substitute. I believe.

harder to be an older single woman, sorry

Also, your DD is really, really tiny! She's not camping, quality time with Daddy stage! She needs routine and will not appreciate changes from the routine. It's all very well to highlight the importance of the dad's relationship but that is completely irrelevant here, given your DD's age and the fact that they already have a relationship that doesn't need saving or bolstering up. It sounds like your ex is doing a good steady job of being the live-out parent so far. Great. Let him keep it up and when your DD's face lights up at the prospect of a long adventure with him, then it will be time to let him go. I only hope your ex has turned into a nicer person by then, for your sake. He sounds very manipulative and you sound so earnest to do the right thing that it's possible for him to convince you what the right thing is, against your gut instinct. 'Equal parenting' doesn't mean equal rights for the parent. He moved out, he changed the status quo, now he's at the mercy of whatever is right for the child. If a parent isn't living in the home, they can jolly well turn up when and where it's appropriate for the child.

I think our PC 'fair's fair' society has completely lost sight of common sense about what a young child needs.

Sorry, rant over :)