Jeremy Forrest verdict - aibu to be confused?

[noddyboulder]

Yep, I don't think even his own parents could deny he's a massive, hideous scumbag with no impulse control - but how can he have been found guilty of abduction when the girl he had an affair with said it was her idea to go to France and she went willingly?

Can somebody legal shed some light?

AVR2 Fri 21-Jun-13 10:59:32
""then he shouldn't have been teaching children"

Fair enough. But how do you screen against that when employing teachers? You can't. I'm willing to bet that Forrest himself never expected to feel the way he did until it actually happened."

People who take on professional jobs are supposed to screen themselves. They are committing themselves to behave in a certain way regardless of how they feel. And if that proves impossible- you can always resign.

The school did try to protect him. They suggested ways in which he would be safe from getting into untenable situations. He ignored them and lied to them.

You cannot screen for it. But the gross failure of so many people when it became clear that Forrest had crossed a line needs proper independent inspection.

There needs to be a process of professional supervision in place whereby teachers can discuss any concerns they have regarding their feelings about a pupil that allows them to work through it in a safe non judgemental manner but with appropriate supervisory measures in place.

In many MH work places, staff have been able to do this when there is either a conflict of interest with a patient, a conflict of personality or a process of maybe transference which causes too many complications in a therapeutic relationship.

I realise it is not usually possible to opt out of teaching a particular student because you are becoming over involved (in terms of investing emotion, not sexual) but there needs to be a safe space to discuss these feelings within a work place that protects all concerned from harm.

Doesn't surprise me for one moment cory.

I would imagine he's tried this before but she was the first who responded.

There are lots of teenagers who are troubled/vulnerable for a variety of reasons. It is the responsibility of adults who are in a position of trust not to abuse/exploit that trust.

higgle Fri 21-Jun-13 11:01:43
"I have noticed in the press today that they remain a couple and the relationship is still on. Maybe the story will have a happy ending. "

Yeah, he sounds a real prize. Lied to his wife, lied to the girl's parents, lied to his employer, knew (so they claim) that she was suicidal so took her away somewhere where she would have no access to medical care. 35 years old and behaves like a 15yo. Just what you want for a lifetime of wedded bliss.

What has he done that suggests he tried to avoid her and failed?

yes emotion clouds judgement but most of us have an inbuilt moral compass that precludes what Forrest did.
And that still does not mean that she is in any way shape or form, culpable or holder of any blame.

Nope but I'm not the one that is assuming he has 'almost certainly tried and failed.'

On the evidence of this case, Forrest isn't a paedophile. Paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder characterised as sexual interest in prepubescent children but AVR2, this was an abduction case. Details of his sexual interest in her would have been minimal as not relevant to the case.

AV2R

do you not think transference is very much part of a teacher/pupil relationship and it is for the teacher to be aware of this

And one of the fundamental tenets behind the sex offender programme at places like Grendon is the exposure and addressing of the kind of victim blaming thought processes that you are displaying AVR2

It is all part of the thought processes that people like Forrest work through to lower their threshold so they can then act upon their thoughts and feelings. And I am very disturbed that a therapist should be so insightless about their own which appear on post to closely mirror that of offenders..

"Emotion clouds judgment".

That is what the law is for.

Many of us see red when we are angry. We find it almost impossible not to pick up something heavy and let our employer or the ghastly man in the employment office or our child's obnoxious friend have it where they would feel it. Almost impossible, but not quite. Because we know we mustn't. Some of us are able to do this on moral restraints alone. Others need the thought of the law. Rage is an emotion that is at least as real and strong as sex. And we have little sympathy for people who claim that they can't be blame for assault because their emotions clouded their judgment.

fatally attracted Do grow up. You are aware that Lolita is a novel, aren't you, AVR?

You have said you work in therapy, are you a therapist? What sort of therapy? Psychiatric therapy doesn't really cover it, that's an umbrella term. What are your qualifications?
To be honest, I would, on present form be very scared about referring somebody to you.
No matter which way you look at this case, legalities and emotions included, he was in the wrong. There were many points where he could have put a stop to things, he chose not to do so. That is wrong, that is a calculated step, ergo, he is to blame.

That's completely not fair. Personal attacks are not appropriate in this discussion.

"I'm willing to bet that Forrest himself never expected to feel the way he did until it actually happened."

wow.

You know nothing about him or his previous behaviour other than what was presented in court so that's a pretty strange bet for someone in your kind of work to make!

You're not reading what AVR2 is saying. She's agrees he was in the wrong.

HeadFairy and AR2 I am sorry, but I don't agree with this, below

^HeadFairy Fri 21-Jun-13 11:01:46
AVR2 My contention is that this a much more complex issue than you want to acknowledge. It's not just Forrest who needs help, it's the girl too - and not because of what he did to her, but because of what was going on in her life that led her to seek comfort and validation in the arms of a much older man

This bit I agree with.^

Plenty of girls go out with older men and aren't in need of psychiatric help. My own parents have a 11 year age gap between them, which was not much less than the gap between myself and my teacher/abuser (there was just over 13 years between us). My mum and dad also started their relationship when my mum was only 17... it isn't about the age gap it's about the imbalance of power and that imbalance of power has come about because he is her teacher.

And I have to agree with MrsDeVere in saying that I feel massively patronised. I don't think Forrest is a calculating, manipulative abuser because I am thick. I think it because all of his actions that have been reported during the trial point to the fact that he is a calculating, manipulative abuser! I am just speechless at how anybody can have heard the ins and outs of the case whilst considering themself to be an intelligent mental healthcare professional and have come out at the conclusion of "well, sounds like they both had their part to play".

Her part was that she went to school and was vulnerable because she was a child. That was the only part she played.

yes we are Idis

i am reading he could not help himself

To me, it's just a forbidden love story WTAF ??

SHe is saying he is not wholly to blame, things were beyond his control, he couldn't do anything about it, he couldn't control his emotions.

If I was posting on a thread and using my professional status to give credence to comments I made, I'd be very, very careful about what I said.