Jeremy Forrest verdict - aibu to be confused?

[noddyboulder]

Yep, I don't think even his own parents could deny he's a massive, hideous scumbag with no impulse control - but how can he have been found guilty of abduction when the girl he had an affair with said it was her idea to go to France and she went willingly?

Can somebody legal shed some light?

AVR2 Fri 21-Jun-13 10:44:57
"Cory, you seem to be assuming that Forrest took the job with the intention of snaring a schoolgirl. I am quite certain that he didn't, and I'm also quite certain that once he realised that the girl was attracted to him he realised how much trouble he was going to be in, but he couldn't help himself."

No, I am saying that he took the job knowing that this would bind him to certain professional standards. He didn't need to foresee this particular relationship to know that being a teacher would mean that however attracted he felt to a student in his charge (whether above or below the age of consent) he would never be allowed to act on those feelings. That is what he committed to by taking a job as a teacher.

If he realised he was unable to control his emotions he should either have resigned or made sure he was never alone with her (which, in fact, was the solution suggested by the school- no doubt for his protection as well as for hers).

I work with older students (18-22 mostly) and even I know not to have sex with them! It's grossly unprofessional. Their parents aren't paying for them to go to university to shag one of the staff. Mind you, over the years, not all of my colleagues have resisted the temptation.

It is not illegal however, whereas clearly here it was, and and as everyone has said, if he really loved her, he would have waited til she's left school. What he did was illegal and deceitful.

I do know at least two happy long-term marriages that started out that way (after school age), so I don't think a teacher/pupil relationship, once off school premises, old enough and there's no conflict of interest (you are not marking their work, for example) is always inherently bad.

why could he not help himself

hundreds of other school teachers are able to deal with school girl/boy crushes by ignoring it it happens all the the time it is part of growing up. if it becomes a problem regarding teaching that pupil you speak to your year head or head of school

AVR2 you are all kinds of nuts my use of "gutter language" offendsyou more than the moral and social wrongs this dickhead has done in having sex with a child.

And I couldn't agree more with sashh here And no, I don't think teenage girls do realise exactly what they are doing. They have an idea someone finds them attractive and they are flattered about that. EXACTLY.

The victim blaming here is outrageous. It is so outrageous I need a new word for it. I feel like common sense has been suspended for the day on this thread. You have all been 14-15, you have all gone to school, you all know what a normal teacher/student relationship is supposed to look like so ffs you must all know that this is wrong.

And as long as people are defending it and saying it's okay and in any part blaming the girl things like this will still go on because it becomes justifiable.

Thank fuck you weren't on that jury AVR2 and God help you if you think that this kind of bullshit, misogynistic victim blaming is "looking at both sides of the story" or seeing the "shades of grey".

I do have difficulty seeing him as a paedophile. I do not necessarily believe he would do this again with another pupil.

But once is enough. His punishment is because he did once what millions of teachers, health and social care professionals all over the world manage to restrain themselves from doing.

He is unfit to work with children and young adults because of this. And because of the additional harm he has caused by all of his subsequent actions. A lack of remorse and a detestable amount of self pity and assumed victimhood has been his sole emotional response. That makes him a more of a danger and an appalling role model to impressionable young people.

As for 'couldn't help himself', I work with lots of very attractive, fit, buff young men in their early twenties. What would happen if I 'couldn't help myself'? Oughtn't I to try? No-one would think it remotely acceptable for a female member of staff to be shagging the students.

idesagain Fri 21-Jun-13 10:48:20
"What if she had been 12yrs old? would it be acceptable then, He couldn't help himself could he, he was gripped by powerful emotions."

This.

Men whom even the apologists on this thread would recognise as paedophiles, men who abuse small children also claim they are gripped by powerful emotions and cannot help themselves. Do we care?

Binky, you need to read the earlier bits of the thread. There is a huge difference between age 12 and 15, legally and emotionally.

I must go feed my children and give them some attention, but will catch up later.

"but he couldn't help himself"

then he shouldn't have been teaching children. How many adults do YOU know who would do this just because they can't help themselves? It that an appropriate defense? I don't think so.

What utter drivel.

what is your line of work?

I have read earlier parts of this thread. I have also seen some pretty outrageous comments.

She was a vulnerable young person, he was an adult in a position of authority. It doesn't matter if she was throwing herself naked round a pole, attempting to cater to every fantasy he could ever dream off.

He should never never have acted on any impulse, if he could not control himself around her then he should have fucked off.

It seems his habit of texting and sending cards to selected female pupils was already noted at this previous school, so he was already crossing boundaries of acceptable conduct before he even knew this girl.

fuck me

what you are a therapist?

I spent many years working in forensic mental health including one very famous FIPMHU and several prisons, one with an SOU attached. I too have worked with men and women like him as have many of my colleagues, none of whom share AVR2's views. He is calculating. His decisions required calculation. He lied continually and encouraged the girl to lie. He lied continually to his wife. He did predate on a school girl. Maybe he would not do it again. Maybe not. That is not relevant.

He used her attentions as a gratification and to validate and bolster a life he was dissatisfied with.

No, but I've followed the court case and in my line of work I have to deal with people like him. That's why I feel confident in stating that he's not a cold, calculating sexual predator, even though it may be convenient for some to consider him in that way.

You don't have to be a predatory bastard like Ian Huntley or Mark Bridger to be a paedophile. Paedophiles come in all shapes and sizes. It's dangerous to assume they all look like loners, shuffling around in dirty macs, hiding in playgrounds waiting to snatch some poor unsuspecting child.

I have noticed in the press today that they remain a couple and the relationship is still on. Maybe the story will have a happy ending. There are examples of teachers and pupils who have lived together and married despite the circumstances of their meeting and I struggle to see him as anything other than someone who was misguided.

AVR2 My contention is that this a much more complex issue than you want to acknowledge. It's not just Forrest who needs help, it's the girl too - and not because of what he did to her, but because of what was going on in her life that led her to seek comfort and validation in the arms of a much older man

This bit I agree with.

And when he began to get inappropriate feelings for her he should have done everything he could to make sure he wasn't anywhere near her.

Hey, thanks, AVR2 - thanks to you, my Rapey Victim Blame Bingo card is nearly full. Could you just say something along the lines of her equally controlling him, or men not being able to control their dicks, so I can shout "HOUSE!"? Ta muchly.