To ask my dad not to take innocent photos of strangers' children?

[whosiwhatsit]

My father is a talented amateur photographer as one of his hobbies. He has a nice camera and takes lovely photos of scenery, nature, ...and children. He isn't from the UK and when he comes to visit me here we often go out for walks and that sort of thing, and he brings his camera and takes these pictures. I feel really uncomfortable when we're walking through a park or something and he snaps photos of children eating ice cream, running about,etc.

Because my father isn't from this country he doesn't understand that taking photos of children you don't know is unacceptable here (I think?). The problem, though, is that my dad can't stand for me to correct him about anything so when I have tried to ask him not to do this he tells me I'm being ridiculous and carries right on.

So AIBU and should I just let him take these photos as he's harmless? Or do I try to get him to stop? If I should get him to stop, p,ease tell me what I should say?

I am considering forwarding a link to this thread to my dad so if there's anything you want to say to him directly about how you would feel if a strange man took a photo of your child in a park please do so and I would really appreciate it. I don't have children myself which is I think one of e reasons he won't listen to me about this.

Well, according to a very long thread on here a few weeks ago it's completely acceptable to take pics of kids.

Back in the real world, I would say you are right to warn your dad, it's not acceptable.

DD has had many random people taking her photo over the years. I don't mind, but a friend I was with one time (2 yrs old, Greenwich park, beautiful sunny day, eating an ice cream, some Chinese tourists took her pic) was horrified and seemed to think she was in danger of peedos because of it She was white blond when tiny and whenever we went into Central London we seemed to encounter groups of teenage Japanese girls who wanted their photo taken with her.

This time last year I was in the park with DD (then 7) when an Indian couple asked if they could take some photos with her, because of her hair (NB, we live in an area of East London that is very Asian, these people were definitely not tourists!). The man took several photos of her with his gf/wife and then got me to take some of them all together. He also was arranging and posing the shots. DD was a bit about it all but they were perfectly polite about it.

After about the eighth snap, however, it started to feel a bit weird, DD was getting restive, and so we made our excuses. I got the impression he'd have taken tons more had I let him.

I did wonder what exactly they were going to say to their friends/relatives when viewing the photos - here are some pics of us in the park with a random child? I mean, if one of my friends showed me a pic like that, let alone several, I'd be a bit 'Erm... okay...'

Unless they were attempting to pass her off as theirs, but unless they were going to pretend they'd adopted her, that wouldn't have worked... still a mystery to me!

Anyway, I wouldn't object, OP, but there are plenty who would and I can understand why you're concerned about your dad getting into trouble.

I phoned the police a few years ago to report a guy taking photos of children in a park. He definitely wasn't a freelance photographer though. The camera was around his neck, concealed under a jacket, and he removed it every few minutes to take a few photos. My gut instinct was screaming 'perv' so I phoned the police.
Your father needs to stop doing this. It's obviously innocent, but it's an invasion of privacy and 99% of parents will be angry at him doing this.

The kids haven't been asked their permission and nor have their parents. No, I would not have it. And your dad risks being reported to the police for being a suspected peodophile. I'm not saying that the police would take notice or that there is anything remotely the intention but I am saying, your dad is far likely to run the risk of being reported. Full stop.

Oh dear. Best tell the art galleries. No more photos of random strangers. And if you have an 'art' photo of a child hanging on your wall, unless you have written permission from that child's parents then you'd better take it down, just in case.

In fact all the parents on here who would physically attack him or go to the police had best never to visit a photograph gallery or any other photo exhibition again. After all, it wouldn't do to be hypocritical would it?

Ssimtee. You would quite rightly be prosecuted for criminal damage. You can't just smash someone's kit to pieces because you don't like what thy do.

I can remember two very contrasting incidents from when DD1 was a toddler.

In the first we were strolling through the park on a lovely Bank Holiday. A man approached us and showed us his press ID and explained he was a photographer for the local rag paper. He was looking for 'what a lovely bank holiday' kind of photos. He asked permission, we gave it, picture appeared in paper next day, all very civilised.

Second incident, we're strolling through park etc. Guy comes right up to DD in her buggy, up to a metre in front of her and kneels down and starts taking full-on photos without saying a word to us. It felt incredibly intrusive and rude. It was one of the few times mild-mannered DH has ever been verbally quite aggressive (ie he said 'stop doing that right now' in a forthright tone). The guy seemed totally bewildered that anyone might question his god-given right to practice his hobby on anyone he liked. It was that kind of arrogance that peeved us.

So for us it was less hysteria about the photos being used for something 'unseemly' and more about the intrusive way it was carried out.

"Oh dear. Best tell the art galleries. No more photos of random strangers. And if you have an 'art' photo of a child hanging on your wall, unless you have written permission from that child's parents then you'd better take it down, just in case."

I agree. It's a legal act and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

On the other hand, committing acts of vandalism and/or of a violent nature, like many people are threatening on this thread, is most definitely a crime.

valiumredhead, I think that was the thread I started?

A few weeks ago I was on a bus with my DS (4) and DD (10 months). My son decided he wanted to sit at the back but I stayed with my DD in the pram. My DS started chatting to a man which I felt perfectly comfortable with as he was clearly in my sight and I could hear them, but I found out from my DS when we got off the bus the man had taken a photo of him.

Now I felt really uncomfortable with this and felt that it was completely unacceptable behaviour to take a photo of a stranger's child. But the vast majority of responses I had to my thread was that I was totally over-reacting and most people wouldn't mind in my situation. It really baffled me and still does to be honest. But on this thread there seems to be a lot of people saying it is unacceptable.

But there are some examples on here that I realise wouldn't bother me. Like the example someone gave of a beach sunset with a couple of kids running off down the beach. That sounds like a beautiful photo and I love photography and if my DS had been one of those boys I wouldn't have minded...because they are not the main focus of the photo just something that helped capture the atmosphere of that moment. And CCTV doesn't bother me in the slightest...that's just part of every day life. And if my children happened to be in the background of a photo that wouldn't bother me either...even in the swimming pool example. But a strange man on a bus taking a head and shoulders shot of my son on a bus did bother me...because why?! Why did he want a head and shoulders shot of my son?

Anyway OP, I'm sure your dad's intentions are very innocent, but as a mother who has had this happen to her very recently, I would definitely appreciate being asked permission.

Oh your poor dad OP. I certainly wouldn't object if an elderly man took a photo of my kids, I think particularly if he looked foreign. Very likely to be harmless so I'd definitely give him the benefit of the doubt. It's pretty unpleasant to assume that photos are taken for grubby purposes when the overwhelming majority won't be.

Coffee my friend might have taken such a photo. If a striking boy was on a bus (by striking I mean, expressive or with unusual features) it might have been a good juxtaposition between the rather grubby bus with perhaps a dingy back window out of which could be seem the grimy sights of townlife and the fresh-faced young boy sat on his own. Or sometimes an image of a sad looking boy, dirty and grubby on a bus is a powerful one (not saying your ds was like this!).

Although to be fair, under those circumstances my friend would have most likely asked permission from the parents, if they were obviously around.

Some people with certain conditions such as Aspergers or Autism also like to take photos of people they've made friends with or encountered.

We have a tendency to think the worst all the time. There is no harm in asking someone why they are taking pictures but there certainly is a lot of harm in destroying someone's property and making such a judgement about someone that it overrides all common sense and reason.

If you spot anyone taking pictures, just talk to them. Most of them would be happy to explain and if you didn't like it, most would be happy to delete the pictures.

Someone with a concealed phone camera however, that's a different story and that is the one which is most likely to have sinister connotations, not the man with the expensive camera equipment taking pics in broad daylight.

To whoever was shocked by my comment, if some perv got off by looking at my fully clothed non exploited child playing in the park, I'd not be happy about it but equally, no harm has come to my child, he or she has not been exploited or hurt or harmed either physically or mentally. So yes I'd rather that than some poor baby or child was forced into heinous acts to be photographed or filmed.

To whoever was shocked by my comment, if some perv got off by looking at my fully clothed non exploited child playing in the park, I'd not be happy about it but equally, no harm has come to my child, he or she has not been exploited or hurt or harmed either physically or mentally. So yes I'd rather that than some poor baby or child was forced into heinous acts to be photographed or filmed.

Heard you the first time!

Oops sorry! Don't know how that happened.

I would FREAK!
I have an adopted DS. I am petrified that one particular family member will found out his location.
If i am out and someone starts to take pics with him around him i move him. If i can't move him quick enough then i would ask the person to please not take pics with him in the background.

Nursery are allowed to use his pics within the nursery but not anywhere else. At their Christmas show i had a word with them as i was worried that people would take pics and post them on social networking sites. They were very good about it and asked all the parents to not post pics if they had any other children in them. Most of his close friends know he is adopted so i didn't worry but if not i may have had the make the decision to not let him take part.

If i saw someone taking pics of him i would be really upset as i would have no idea who that person was and where that pic is going to end up. Is it a family member and they've tracked him down? Is it private investigator hired by the birth family?

EspressoMonkey

I wouldn't take someone's photo without their permission, it just isn't right

Just out of interest , do you only get your news from the radio?

I guess if you don't think it is right to take photos, you also think it not right to look at them?

You wouldn't be able to walk down our local high street if you didn't want your photo taken, there usually a couple of film crews milling around, the local TV station, and a zillion grockles taking pictures, it's probable impossible to not have your photo taken at least once an hour if you live in Tudor town, or seaside town in the south west.

I've always wondered about those shots they use whenever they do a feature on obesity. They always choose horrible footage of very large people with their bellies overhanging their trousers or stuffing their faces whilst walking along. I can't imagine those people gave their consent.

How horrified would you be if you saw your face on one of those clips?

I don't think it's paedophillia paranoi that has been the gamechanger wrt strangers taking photos. In the past, if someone took a pic, and printed it, the most they could do would be to show a few tens or perhaps hundreds of friends.

Now with the Internet it could be on view to potentially millions within seconds. That seems to be the issue. And you would have no control over what the image was used for either.

I occasional take photos of roads and paths in public places as a peripheral to my job ( safety assessment type thing) in the last year or so I have had 2 'complaints' / queries back to the office that Someone in my employers branded hi viz has been seen been taking pictures near children. And I am female, if that makes a difference to anyone. It will only be a matter of time before someone queries your dad op.

Many years ago, when I was better looking and per dc I did bollock some creepy random who took my picture at a local show. Not sure why bit it just felt like some kind of infringement.

flossy that is exactly what one person who called to query what I was doing was worried about.

When it was explained who i was and what I was doing, and that the photos were not of the kids, and that they were to be stored on a secure private server for purposes of monitoring the safety checks ( rather than posted on Facebook) they were happy.

But general filming of a street scene is in no way the same as someone coming up to you specifically to take your photo. The latter is (to my mind, anyway) targeted, intrusive, quite challenging-'Ha, I've got your image!'

And generally I don't like even arty photos that capture unwitting subjects. Always feels quite exploitative to me.

Rhubarb don't you find that "generic fatties" or "generic children" stock video on eg the news tends to be from chest/shoulders downwards? Hard to identify anyone there, which is presumably the point.

it isn't illegal, but it is bloody rude.

many UK travel guides for the great abroad will tell you not to take photos of people without asking their permission first. would your father kindly extend the same courtesy here please?

not paedophilia, just basic manners.