AIBU to not clean to the standards that my near-freak husband seems to expect....

[gettngbetter]

We had a big fight tonight and DH is sleeping in the spare room.

When I came home from work I was in great form as the weather is so good and I was looking forward to both of us doing something with the kids - but DH was a bit grumpy and he put me in a bad mood. He had the day off work and was out with the kids and although he loves spending time with them - I think the stress of it was getting to him. Whenever I said something to him he was giving one word answers.

I was anxious to get going before the sun went down - but DH said he had to load the dishwasher or else he would have to do it when he got home. He thinks he has to do everything and I'm lazy (which is not true)

DH is a neat freak. I like to have the place clean - but I'm prepared to tolerate some clutter if it means I have more time to bring the kids to the park or the playground or read them stories etc. I feel life is to short to be stressing out about having the house immaculate.

When I come home from work in the evenings I always have a list of jobs to do like getting the clothes & bags ready for the next day - making dinner - ironing - picking up the mess from the morning - etc etc. I also spend time reading to the kids. DH works late a lot - often until 10.30 or 11. I never have time for myself to do exercise or relax or anything. It's just endless jobs!!

i feel when DH is giving out about poor him having to do everything that he is implying I'm lazy and dirty!!! He gets a bit annoyed if I leave dirty plates at the sink. When he's working away I let a few dirty plates build up and then I load the dishwasher - is that so bad????

Anyway, after DH was giving out about having to load the dishwasher i told him to cheer up and he marched out to the car with the kids - closing the door - leaving me behind. Then I saw him driving out the gate. I know it was childish but I unloaded the dishwasher and put everything back in the sink and also

He's being a massive arse.

Can't believe he left you behind!

at unloading the dishwasher and putting it back in the sink.

personally I would book a hotel for a week and leave him to work out how to work, look after the DCs and keep the hose clean.

If he ever said another word after that I would LTB.

Not that I would have married anyone tidy to start with.

He was an arse to include the DC in your 'punishment' and deny them a nice time out with both of you, so YANBU to put all the dishes on his bed.

But if he's genuinely feeling hard done by and you're just brushing off how he thinks he's being taken for granted, YABU.

To me you complement each other, he gets control over the house and you give 'quality' time to the DC. But it can only work if both of you are happy with that.

He's out working very late though, either he's feeling a bit out of control and guilty he's never at home and overcompensating by (cackhandedly) trying to have some input in the home, or he's being a controlling fuck and telling you how to run the house to his liking.

Sorry I posted twice by accident as I was in the middle of editing my post. How do I delete the other post

I run a tight ship and like to have everything under control, but I don't expect anyone else to keep it to my 'standard'.

If I want it done a certain way, want a certain level of tidiness, I do it myself.

Of course I force encourage the DDs to be tidy/clean, but saying it to a child isn't the same as him saying it to you.

Just click the report link on the OP of the other thread and MNHQ will delete it.

What a massive twat.

I would do what startail said and go away for a week - leave him with the house & the kids - see how perfect it all isn't then

Partners who are never home have no idea whatsoever how much work goes into running a house and sorting out the millions of things that the children need for school.

There's no way on this green earth I'd put up with being treat like that. No way.

DH is a good person but he's obsessed with the house being neat & tidy.

When my sisters call over to babysit he insists that he has to mop the floors as it would be awful to have them over seeing dirty floors. I don't think they'd notice or care to be honest! It almost sounds funny when I put it down in print!

He doesn't have OCD as I've read about that and it sounds more serious. He just seems to have very high standards. And I think he finds cleaning therapeutic too

YABU.

I know it was childish but I unloaded the dishwasher and put everything back in the sink and also

Yes it was childish. Everything you state about your DH and yourself is a matter of perspective, except for the above. Your priorities may differ but you have said precisely nothing that can establish on any objective basis which of you is the more reasonable... or the less unreasonable as the case may be.

If one is going to have a big public moan about one's partner getting too wound up about the housework, it makes sense to give a few background facts: who does what, who does which chores. Otherwise it is just as easy to say that you are a lazy, messy slob who is quite content to leave all the chores to him, and then blame him for objecting to this situation. LAnd it seems to me that if you have enough time tim unload the dishwasher just to spite him, there is evidence that you are precisely that.

It sounds like you both work very hard. Sometimes I get really irritable about the state of the house, and it's usually not when DH is slacking off, or when I am, but when we are both working very hard. It has to do with that feeling you describe of having never-ending lists of jobs, b/c it can feel like we are both always working and prioritizing lists of jobs over ever having a nice time and it STILL isn't good enough. I wonder whether that's part of what's going on for you both, just being overloaded.

And I think it is very natural to want to spend time with the kids instead of endlessly cleaning.

I'd sit down and see whether a compromise can be reached on how time is spent, what the priorities are etc. It does sound like you have a mismatch of standards, but I think the frustration comes from you both feeling like drudges. And each feeling like the other does not appreciate how much drudgery each is doing.

OCD can be about controlling your environment, it's difficult to relax if things aren't where they should be and there are jobs which need doing (and there's always something that needs doing).

But even if he did have OCD, and it's possible, this will always come down to him trying to control you when he's not in the house. If he has OCD, it's not alright for him to pressure you into colluding.

He has the right to how things are done when he's doing it, so unless his complaints are actually commands that must be obeyed or there will be consequences, it's not for him to say.

Is his sulking/tantrum just a way of making you do as you're told? Do as I say or you'll be sorry and have to pay.

Just out of interest, is he anxious about how he comes across to other people? I'm thinking about the floor being mopped, that would suggest maybe his mum parents weren't completely comfortable with being visited when it was less than perfectly tidy and like to be seen as a certain type.

Thanks KeatsiePie - what you said makes sense. I think we both do feel like drudges from all the work that having kids brings - even though they make us so happy.

I know he works hard at work - and then comes home and helps with the housework. A lot of women have the opposite problem where their DH won't lift a finger. But I hate when DH is fed up and makes me feel like I'm not pulling my weight - because my idea of a clean kitchen doesn't match his.

I have to say I do also think you have to relax your standards some when you have small children. Has he taken a look around at the homes of any friends/family with little kids? Not many people still have the floors waxed and gleaming

I do get though that this is genuinely frustrating for him -- I have a hard time with clutter as it makes me feel like no aspect of my life is peaceful. Maybe he could have a zone or a few key areas that you agree you will both keep cleared off? For me it's my desk and the counters. I don't care if the floor is filthy (well I do, but not that much) if the counters are clean. There's something about putting my cup down on top of crumbs and hearing the crunch that just sets my teeth on edge. If he could have a couple of areas like that then in return maybe he could loosen up about the rest of it.

It sounds like there is something more to this? His reaction to having to load the dishwasher was OTT.

I'm not in any way excusing his behaviour but if my dh acted like this I would be probing a little deeper into what was really wrong.

I must be the only one that can see his point?
Why dirty plates in the sink when you have a dishwasher? Put them in as you go. Less clutter,less stress. Yes, clutter makes me stressed, as does breadcrumbs all over the place after toast making etc.
you are really lucky that he helps out, can't you try and meet him half way?
clutter is stressful to some people. (Me obv)

I tend to agree with BB - why have dirty plates in the sink when you have a dishwasher?

I like order and calm around me too.

I do think DH driving off with DC was out of order.

Move this to Relationships. Report your own OP and ask MN to move it there.

Your H is being a knob.

The business about having different standards of cleanliness is part one upmanship (trying to shame you and make himself look like the better person) and part control (trying to make you feel accountable to him for the state of the house when clearly you are both adults and supposed to be partners freely sharing the same roof). Does he help with the housework or do you get the feeling he is competitive about it and trying to show you what a master of housework he is? Maybe he is compensating for some feeling of insecurity or inadequacy? When people don't listen to one another and insist it's their way or the highway, there is always a desire to control.

There is an element in this of him trying to completely ignore what you want out of all of this. And there is also anger and spite - otherwise he wouldn't have done what he did tonight with the children. I would guess he fumed all day and felt very sorry for himself, then took it all out on you.

He is also trying to make it difficult for your sisters to come over by being so keen on mopping and having everything ship shape before they set foot in your house. Even if he isn't intending to spoil their visits and make you upset and uptight about other people dropping in he will certainly succeed in making you think twice about welcoming others into the house if this goes on. You will become isolated.

The two of you need to identify your values and try to figure out what you are going to do to attain the elements of family life that you both value. You are going to have to acknowledge that each person's values are fine and acceptable. Once you have got past this stumbling block you need to start thinking practically and try to draw a line under the bad feeling that has resulted in you taking the plates out of the dishwasher and him driving off in high dudgeon with the children.

You value time with the children and time for exercise and relaxation.
He values a clean house.

How do you achieve all of that without locking the children away in their rooms for hours on end?

Can you afford a weekly cleaner?

Can you yourself try to get so organised that you don't have to make dinner every night, or iron every night, or get clothes together for the morning every night?

Could you afford a dryer so that your clothes could be taken out and folded and not ironed?
Could you assess your clothes and chuck anything that needs ironing, buy only clothes that can be washed and dried and put away?
Can you take the time at the weekend to set up a week's worth of clothes hanging up for everyone so all you have to do is reach for the next trousers, shirt, scarf combo and bob's your uncle?

Could you maybe cook and freeze meals for the evening at the weekend? Or cook every second day and have leftovers the next day?

But I am very inclined to agree with Startail and Chipping. I was married to a neatfreak and it didn't end well.

The place he lives in now is a long way from clean. It shocked me when I first saw it. His constant nagging of me was him trying to out-woman me.

I'm married to someone with much lower standards than me. The mess she forces me to live with is a permanent background source of stress. When she goes away to visit her parents for a couple of weeks, even though I don't make any concerted attempt to tidy up, my home rapidly evolves into a state of tidiness that is impossible when she is here, and I feel like a great weight has been lifted from my shoulders.

(Further details deleted because I don't want to hijack the thread. I'll start my own, some day.)

Just want to add it wasn't for finance/child issues, I would divorce over this. Thought it was worth saying as I don't think messier partners understand the impact of their behaviour.

if it wasn't for finance/child issues