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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder why on earth Troops to Teachers is considered to be a great idea?

687 replies

ballinacup · 07/06/2013 08:53

Before we start, I'm not armed forces bashing, I'm sure there are some troops out there who would make excellent teachers. But why on earth offer a fast track course to troops without a degree?!

It seems like sheer madness, why not offer the fast track course to anyone? Am I missing some glaringly obvious fact that makes it all make sense? Or has Gove got a vision in his head of classrooms running with military precision if he has soldiers at the helm?

Can someone please explain it to me, because I'm genuinely puzzled.

OP posts:
Elquota · 07/06/2013 10:31

Hear hear, cory

GoblinGranny · 07/06/2013 10:32

Likewise you don't get many challenging children, or those with specific needs in selective independents of the type that notyummy describes :

'I also think that there had been work done with high performing private schools to understand how they select teachers, given that they don't need to have teachers with specific qualifications. One of the largest sub-groups they recruit from is ex-military officers. '

ComposHat · 07/06/2013 10:33

Maybe next step will be Teachers for Troops when they are all displaced by the army!

I now have visions of my dotty 60 year old ex home economics teacher and bumbling maths teacher with a comb over and a dodgy prostate running through a jungle John Rambo style and letting off AK 47s.

TheHonourableAlgyLacey · 07/06/2013 10:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
ballinacup · 07/06/2013 10:33

I just want to point out that I wasn't suggesting that armed forces personnel would make bad teachers, I was wondering why they, specifically, would be offered a (presumably) funded, fast tracked training route. Why not open it to everyone? What is so very special about armed forces personel that they don't have to do what everyone else has to do?

OP posts:
Elquota · 07/06/2013 10:33

Would he also send ex-teachers on a fast-track to work in the military? No, because the skills needed are so different. Oh wait...

Cookie804 · 07/06/2013 10:34

All types? Ok so we don't have 4 yr olds. We do have people with dyslexia or who have difficulties in learning.

What I was saying was that with my experience already my starting point for teacher training would be different from someone straight out of university that has no experience what so ever. I'm used to being stood in a classroom. I've experience creating lessons and teaching them.

I may not have taught children(although we do interact with cadet from time to time) but I'm certainly not inexperience when it comes to dealing with them.

CaptainJamesTKirk · 07/06/2013 10:39

thehonourable. Did you know some of the best burns surgeons in this country (with world recognised renown) are army surgeons (former army surgeons)? The army (sorry saltire - I only know the army) has a medical corps, a veterinary corps, a nursing corps, a police force. They have officers of religion. They could be employed outside of the forces within a heartbeat because they meet the criteria of the profession they are entering. As will those that go into teaching, they will meet a criteria and receive training.

It is all about relevance, eligibility and criteria and meeting the standards.

Unfortunately a significant number of the teachers on this thread give the impression that they have their heads so firmly up their own backsides that they're not even willing to imagine that someone else might be better at the job of teaching than themselves.

The armed forces are multi skilled, get this attitude of all they can do is shoot out if your heads. It makes you come across as immature and narrow minded.

scaevola · 07/06/2013 10:40

Ex-teachers could sign up! And they would go through the normal military training.

Ex-forces can go into teaching (about 1:500 trainee teachers at he moment), and receive training comparable to anyone going in to teaching - I say comparable, because it's actually longer than that for Teach First.

And not really different from Teach Next (did that ever get off the ground?)

Original poster
ballinacup · 07/06/2013 10:42

But Captain, teaching is either a graduate profession, or it isn't. It can't be a graduate profession to some, but a non-graduate profession regardless of vocational training for others.

OP posts:
CaptainJamesTKirk · 07/06/2013 10:43

Are you not listening. Many serving officer and NCOs are graduates. I feel like I'm talking to a bloody brick wall.

Cookie804 · 07/06/2013 10:44

Well it used to be the case that to be a doctor you had to be a man.

Things change.

Pinkflipflop · 07/06/2013 10:44

Surely there are enough unemployed teachers around without adding to the list?

Wishiwasanheiress · 07/06/2013 10:45

Op I don't know if its a fab idea but I do think its an idea. And it's not inherently IMO a bad one.

Just like some normal people make fab teachers and some seriously dont, the same with the army. Would you prefer they did something else? If so what? I'm happy with various professions doing this for army people. Or anyone whose having a second career. (Agree its a bit narrow focused!)

Wishiwasanheiress · 07/06/2013 10:46

Many army are graduates. Eg engineers.....

SuffolkNWhat · 07/06/2013 10:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Wishiwasanheiress · 07/06/2013 10:47

Captain, like your posts. I'm in agreement.

GoblinGranny · 07/06/2013 10:47

No, I'm all for it.
It will give parents and children new challenges to face, and something different to complain about.
It will give the government something new and shiny to play with.
It will shake up the system yet again, but this time it won;t involve me or mine, so I'll just be in it for the entertainment observations.
Come on, why not?
Education's been a roller coaster crossed with a maze and a voyage of the dammed for the past 15 years, why end the ride now?
Aren't you all keen to rise to the challenge?

Ilikethebreeze · 07/06/2013 10:48

CaptainJamesTKirk, are you in the army?

Cookie804 · 07/06/2013 10:48

There is a unemployed teacher in Leeds that has just been cleared to kids again. Not sure if he is off the sex offenders list or not though.

soverylucky · 07/06/2013 10:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Wishiwasanheiress · 07/06/2013 10:49

They aren't really though are they? It's just advertising. Pr bs. Now it's teaching needs you! Rather than the army needs you! Posters of war time.

GoblinGranny · 07/06/2013 10:51

How about if the training was squished into a shorter time frame?
What if it was an intensive 12 hours a day plus TP?
So they covered the same ground, but yomping?

mignonette · 07/06/2013 10:52

Why doesn't Gove just cut the bullshit and establish US style military academies? Lets face it, it seems as if this is what he is inspired by.

Dreadful idea, 'fast track' teacher training at undergraduate level. Provide support for those ex military types who wish to read for a degree in education or a post grad but making it easier will introduce inferiority. it is certainly not a thought out response to C**Tservative claims of deterioration in teaching standards.

Ilikethebreeze · 07/06/2013 10:53

We get that they are graduates, some or many of them.

Are people now saying that there is now a teeacher script, so anyone with a degree can just follow the script and become a teacher? Hey Presto!

Is that what you are sayinng Captain?

ooh, and love the bit where you think the army would make better teachers than say, ....teachers.

[yes, obviously there are some not good teachers, and some, a few army people who with the correct teaching, dedication, enthusiasm, not thinking they are a cut above etc etc would eventually be good at the job].